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Tone Bender building for dummies?

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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby merlyn » Sun May 02, 2021 3:17 pm

@Folderol I see. Germanium transistors are totally weird. :)

@Wonks Yes, good article.

@SecretSam You might have missed this earlier :

Albatross wrote:

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/201 ... ional.html

No circuit diagrams, just a layout on a bit of veroboard. You could start with that to get something working, then experiment with tweaking the circuit, and if germanium transistors are so weird they will respond to tweaking :thumbup:
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Folderol » Sun May 02, 2021 3:34 pm

merlyn wrote:@Folderol I see. Germanium transistors are totally weird. :)
Oh yes, but fun to play with. The only downside is that they are also very temperature sensitive (on just about all characteristics) Although I've seen even that made use of :lol:
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby SecretSam » Sun May 02, 2021 9:13 pm

Gents

Sincere thanks for all the very expert advice.

It seems there is quite a learning curve in front of me.

Fidding on a breadboard ... of course will let me separate circuit design issues from dodgy soldering, so thanks for stressing that.

@merlyn thanks for the veroboard link. Another dumb question: what is the meaning of the red squares with the red dots?
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Wonks » Sun May 02, 2021 9:36 pm

SecretSam wrote:Another dumb question: what is the meaning of the red squares with the red dots?

That’s where you cut a bit out of the veroboard track to break it into two (or more) sections. Sone people use a drill bit in the hole to break the track.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Folderol » Sun May 02, 2021 10:14 pm

Wonks wrote:
SecretSam wrote:Another dumb question: what is the meaning of the red squares with the red dots?

That’s where you cut a bit out of the veroboard track to break it into two (or more) sections. Sone people use a drill bit in the hole to break the track.

A 4mm drill bit is your friend. I only ever saw one 'proper' spot face tool, and it was 'kin expensive!

Be very careful to ensure you have cut the full width of the track, and not left any whiskers shorting to adjacent ones.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Wonks » Sun May 02, 2021 10:27 pm

If in doubt, use a scalpel or sharp craft knife to cut twice across the track in that position and peel off the copper from the board. But a quick continuity test with a multimeter should confirm that you’ve cut the track correctly.

It’s very easy to lose track when counting along to work out where to cut the track, so best to first mark your cut points, then recheck your counting.

Also be aware of which way up the diagram view has the veroboard. What is hole 16 out of 20 from the top view (component side view) is actually hole 5 out of 20 from the underneath view which is the track side view, so you need to get it right.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby ef37a » Sun May 02, 2021 11:19 pm

Folderol wrote:
Wonks wrote:
SecretSam wrote:Another dumb question: what is the meaning of the red squares with the red dots?

That’s where you cut a bit out of the veroboard track to break it into two (or more) sections. Sone people use a drill bit in the hole to break the track.

A 4mm drill bit is your friend. I only ever saw one 'proper' spot face tool, and it was 'kin expensive!

Be very careful to ensure you have cut the full width of the track, and not left any whiskers shorting to adjacent ones.

VERILY^! See my earlier post.

Dave.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Albatross » Mon May 03, 2021 9:11 am

I use a magnifying glass to check my cuts, then use a meter to make sure there's no electrons creeping across.

For the joins I've found that the inner core of old tv aerial cable is perfect.

I also use that to secure wires attached to the edges of the board. I sling a little loop over the wire, through the hole, pull tight then solder it on the back. It does mean that whatever any diagram shows as the board size needs to be a bit bigger to facilitate the connecting wire to pots and switches, jacks and so on.

Don't forget that if you plan to use the old stereo jack switch trick then you need to have a spare track for the battery ground. So all grounds to their track, battery to this spare (edge) track and when you put the TS plug in it joins the ground track and battery track and you get power ... when you pull it out the battery ground floats and you save the battery and switch the device off.

Hope this isn't a granny egg sucking class or has been mentioned before, not read the whole thread and don't know how much of this you've done.

If you've not used Veroboard much then perhaps make something simple and useful for starters as a practice piece ... recommend the brilliant and simple buffer/pre. I get so much use out of mine for all kinds of stuff ... The Tillman (with or without gain switch or volume pot) http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/201 ... llman.html

(oops not sure if you have any JFets, but pretty much any will do)

My sincere apologies for posting the link to the Tagboardeffects site. I thought I'd managed to sneak it past you but Merlyn spotted it so you can blame him for all the hours you will likely now spend breathing in solder smoke hunched over a screen when you could have been outside, with a cold beer and Africa's finest between your fingers playing an acoustic guitar. Sorry.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby SecretSam » Mon May 03, 2021 9:19 am

Albatross wrote:I use a magnifying glass to check my cuts, then use a meter to make sure there's no electrons creeping across.

For the joins I've found that the inner core of old tv aerial cable is perfect.

I also use that to secure wires attached to the edges of the board. I sling a little loop over the wire, through the hole, pull tight then solder it on the back. It does mean that whatever any diagram shows as the board size needs to be a bit bigger to facilitate the connecting wire to pots and switches, jacks and so on.

Don't forget that if you plan to use the old stereo jack switch trick then you need to have a spare track for the battery ground. So all grounds to their track, battery to this spare (edge) track and when you put the TS plug in it joins the ground track and battery track and you get power ... when you pull it out the battery ground floats and you save the battery and switch the device off.

Hope this isn't a granny egg sucking class or has been mentioned before, not read the whole thread and don't know how much of this you've done.

If you've not used veroboard much then perhaps make something simple and useful for starters as a practice piece ... recommend and brilliant and simple buffer/pre. I get so much use out of mine for all kinds of stuff ... The Tillman (with or without gain switch) http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/201 ... llman.html

Thanks Albatross. My soldering to date only includes fixing an old pair of headphones, and my electronics dates back to A-levels, some 40 years ago. So all advice gratefully received.

If there is a thick black line on a veroboard layout, is the convention that just the ends are connected, or does it mean that all the strips under it are connected?
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Albatross » Mon May 03, 2021 9:24 am

Just the ends. Your components are going on the none copper side, as are the joins. Sometimes the designer needs to jumper two tracks together. Its just a jumper. If you make something, everything will click.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby SecretSam » Mon May 03, 2021 9:38 am

Thanks - looking forward to that click. Followed by rich, fuzzy goodness.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 03, 2021 1:01 pm

Folderol wrote:
Wonks wrote:A 4mm drill bit is your friend. I only ever saw one 'proper' spot face tool, and it was 'kin expensive!

The 'proper' Veroboard cutter is surprisingly expensive at £17...

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/stripboard-cutters/0543535/

But on the other hand, I bought mine in the late 70s and it's still going strong. Ive never had to resharpen it either, and in fact it has outlasted at least two pairs of (far more expensive) side-cutters, and one pair of needle-nose pliers, so actually I reckon I was well worth the initial outlay, especially given its convenience and ease of use.

For the uninvested ;-) there's an el-cheapo Brimal version on Amazon for just £3.99 that might be worth a punt:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brimal-Stripboard-Cutter-Prototype-Circuit/dp/B0071KZVV0
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Folderol » Mon May 03, 2021 2:44 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Folderol wrote:
Wonks wrote:A 4mm drill bit is your friend. I only ever saw one 'proper' spot face tool, and it was 'kin expensive!

The 'proper' Veroboard cutter is surprisingly expensive at £17...

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/stripboard-cutters/0543535/

Even this doesn't really do it properly, and like all the others weakens the board. The one I saw was made for the owner by a small engineering firm, and was actually a counterbore tool with a centre locating pin. It had three cutting faces for stability that only cut the track. It was quick, no more than a couple of turns, and produced a perfect result every time. Not surprisingly, the owner wouldn't even let me pick it up :lol:
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 03, 2021 3:02 pm

Folderol wrote:Even this doesn't really do it properly, and like all the others weakens the board.

You'd have to have a really heavy-handed approach to weaken the board to any significant degree! The drill bit has a very shallow cutting angle -- much like a counter-sink bit -- so while you will cut into the fibre board slightly near the inner edges, it's really not enough to weaken the board -- and I've never had a board crack, let alone break, where I've cut out the vero strip.

It was quick, no more than a couple of turns, and produced a perfect result every time.

My old vero cutter is the same. Two or three twists with only modest pressure and a perfect result every time. Been using it for 50 years with no complaints at all.
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Re: Tone Bender building for dummies?

Postby merlyn » Mon May 03, 2021 3:29 pm

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