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Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

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Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:54 pm

One of my favourite go to VST collections is the Korg Legacy collection but for a while now, some users, myself included, have reportedly had difficulty getting some of the instruments to install on a Mac. So, after years of not updating the software, I was pleasantly surprised during a Christmas clean reinstall to find Korg has just reissued whole set as the Korg Collection with (seemingly) compatibility updates to all the original components plus the addition of the Arp Odyssey (of which first impressions are good). Hooray!

BUT- the new licence authorisation system insist on an internet connection on the host computer. Offline authorisation is no longer an option. I am a bit old school and still like to run a closed off offline music computer via dual booting. That said, it's been the case for a while that I need to go temporarily online to do software updates and certain activations for a while which I accept is the price of progress - but in the case of Korg, it now appears to require a permanent connection. If I attempt to disable my network adapter or make any other tweak to prevent the computer post install, it complains that the licence is invalid until I reinstate it. So I'm now forced to have a permanently online music DAW whether I want it or not, doing god knows what in the background, presumably now needing virus checking all that that sort of stuff and impossible to preserve indefinitely in a proven working state.

You might argue that we now live in a world where being permanently online is the way things are done and I just need to suck it up but where this is a particular problem is live - I use the Legacy set (the bits that worked) on my Mainstage set-up for live use and virtually every venue I've played has poor or zero wifi on the stage - assuming that I would even want my live rig online mid show in the first place. For now my previous versions will work but the next time I need to reinstall from scratch, I'm screwed as the old authorisation system is being retired soon.

I do wish companies would think these things through.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:12 pm

I've done the migration to the new versions (so my licence is valid when korguser.net goes), but haven't yet installed them.

They've already announced that new, larger GUI's for the Legacy plugins are coming, so that's the major draw for me.

I know there is no offline authorisation for these, but do they really require an online check each time you load them? (even the Roland Cloud plugins, that used to do this, now only check once a week or so, rather than every time they launch).

If the Korg system uses a hardware fingerprint of your setup (which is common) during authorisation, then no wonder it will break if you disable the network card, because the network card id is a common way of fingerprinting your system, and removing that will change the authorisation codes.

I'm sure there is a system way of turning off internet/network activity on your machine without disabling the entire card. How is your internet connected? Wifi? Ethernet?
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Dave B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:15 pm

More to the point, it looks like they are closing down the KorgUser site and haven't bothered to tell people about it. So now I have to sign up to the Korg Shop to get updates. Fine, but it would have been handy if Korg had told me this ...

As to the 'being online permanently' thing, I reckon it won't last 5 mins - as you point out, there's a lot of Mainstage users (and Win equivalents) out there that don't have network access. That's a lot of cross users that they'll have to contend with..
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Dave B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:26 pm

WTF? :?

So, when you chaps transferred your stuff over, did you do them one at a time? Or do you have all legacy instruments and use a bundle coupon?

It seems that the Korg Shop checkout can't cope with more than one coupon and is demanding that I do things one at a time. Frankly, this is a pile of the proverbial and if Korg can't even do simple checkout right, I'm not confident about moving over...
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:39 pm

Dave B wrote:It seems that the Korg Shop checkout can't cope with more than one coupon and is demanding that I do things one at a time. Frankly, this is a pile of the proverbial and if Korg can't even do simple checkout right, I'm not confident about moving over...

Well, as you're late to this, it got *way* worse before Christmas! :headbang:

Basically, Korg' servers died as everyone was trying to do this, and it was a mess..! At least the servers are working now.

And yes, I did each instrument one at a time, for the reasons you state - I did it before the rush happened and the servers melted, and had no problems other than the coupon only working when one instrument was being migrated, so I did them one at a time.

If you have a single full bundle code, you only need to do it once, for the entire bundle.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:41 pm

I ended up installing Little Snitch to prevent certain programs from always checking for updates, allowing the ones that need to and that I know are "safe". But as posted above, what if you are somewhere that doesn't have reliable or any internet?
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:53 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:But as posted above, what if you are somewhere that doesn't have reliable or any internet?

I'm not convinced they need to be online, nor have I seen anything about this on various forums - just that you need to *authorise* online - once authorised, then plugins should not need to connect to Korg.

I (vaguely) recall a few posts I think saying that they were prompted to re-authorise when going offline - I'm not sure if this is a bug, or intended behaviour, but I think if the plugins *always* needed to be online, and checked every time they loaded, there would be a *lot* more talk about this.

Like I say, I haven't installed the new versions here yet, so I can't check the behaviour for me...
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm

OK, I just tried disconnecting the network cable and it seemed OK. I had tried things like removing TCP/IP protocols but leave the NIC active but that hadn't worked which was what was making me conclude that the presence of a connection was the key factor. I've been doing the disabling (as opposed to uninstalling) the NIC thing for donkey's years and nothing has ever complained before. One presumed that if the NIC was part of a larger component that hadn't changed - i.e. the motherboard - a points based fingerprinting system should recognise this but I guess things are changing.

Physical disconnection is not really a solution though as this is a dual boot machine that needs regular access most of time - I really wanted to be able to do this with some sort of simple OS switch on the music side but it looks like I'm out of luck.

But this would at least suggest that it will be OK on the laptop for live. I'm still a little wary as a Roland plug-in/out has erratically misbehaved before when the internet connection goes on the laptop which once caused a show not to load at soundcheck - not something I ever want to see happen again - but I will keep an eye on things to see how others fare.

I don't want to be too down on Korg, this is really an excellent suite which I get a lot of use from and I'm delighted to see it get another lease of life - it's just a nuisance it's now seemingly forcing me down a system housekeeping route that I didn't want to have to go down.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Rich Hanson » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:35 pm

I'm pretty sure they use the network card's MAC address to authorise against, as they are unique (there are caveats to that last bit but it's largely true) so if the network card disappears, it can't find that MAC address so the authorisation code no longer matches.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:38 pm

Rich Hanson wrote:I'm pretty sure they use the network card's MAC address to authorise against, as they are unique (there are caveats to that last bit but it's largely true) so if the network card disappears, it can't find that MAC address so the authorisation code no longer matches.

Yes, this is what I was referring to in the second post in the thread.

Quite a lot of software uses the Mac address as part as it's fingerprint for generating auth codes, it's quite common...
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Rich Hanson » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:41 pm

I certainly ran into it when I was using a Windows laptop - I had one of those troublesome WiFi cards that need to be disabled when low latency audio is required. As I didn't have a network cable to where I worked, I authorised the plug-ins over the WiFi and then disabled it with the expected result!

Taking my laptop to the router and authorising connected through a cable with the WiFi disabled worked, but as I recall, re-enabling the WiFi didn't break the authorisation.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:01 pm

After a bit of experimentation, sorted by manual entering a bogus TCP/IP address instead of allowing the computer to obtain one from my router. A little round the houses but it works and I've also now successfully installed it to my MacBook and it's not complaining when the laptop doesn't have network access. Thanks for the insights and suggestions. Much happier and with hindsight my initial complaints were probably unduly harsh!

The new Odyssey is rather nice as well. Really pleased to see that added. Much easier to use than the old G-Media one!
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Agharta » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:59 pm

Thanks for posting this as I bought the Wavestation 2 years ago and forget to register it! :shh:
I've registered for the cross-grade and playing around with the original version and it is very inspiring.
The African Kalimba in ROM4 is great.
Need to upgrade now to the latest release.
Cheers
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Mr.Pete » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:23 pm

Has there been any actual updates from KORG yet since this post?
The tiny windows in the GUI were bad enough but requiring you to only use these synths while logged in online is a total dealbreaker for anybody trying to use them in a live rig

Steve A wrote:One of my favourite go to VST collections is the Korg Legacy collection but for a while now, some users, myself included, have reportedly had difficulty getting some of the instruments to install on a Mac. So, after years of not updating the software, I was pleasantly surprised during a Christmas clean reinstall to find Korg has just reissued whole set as the Korg Collection with (seemingly) compatibility updates to all the original components plus the addition of the Arp Odyssey (of which first impressions are good). Hooray!

BUT- the new licence authorisation system insist on an internet connection on the host computer. Offline authorisation is no longer an option. I am a bit old school and still like to run a closed off offline music computer via dual booting. That said, it's been the case for a while that I need to go temporarily online to do software updates and certain activations for a while which I accept is the price of progress - but in the case of Korg, it now appears to require a permanent connection. If I attempt to disable my network adapter or make any other tweak to prevent the computer post install, it complains that the licence is invalid until I reinstate it. So I'm now forced to have a permanently online music DAW whether I want it or not, doing god knows what in the background, presumably now needing virus checking all that that sort of stuff and impossible to preserve indefinitely in a proven working state.

You might argue that we now live in a world where being permanently online is the way things are done and I just need to suck it up but where this is a particular problem is live - I use the Legacy set (the bits that worked) on my Mainstage set-up for live use and virtually every venue I've played has poor or zero wifi on the stage - assuming that I would even want my live rig online mid show in the first place. For now my previous versions will work but the next time I need to reinstall from scratch, I'm screwed as the old authorisation system is being retired soon.

I do wish companies would think these things through.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:52 am

Mr.Pete wrote:Has there been any actual updates from KORG yet since this post?

Not yet, no.

Mr.Pete wrote:The tiny windows in the GUI were bad enough but requiring you to only use these synths while logged in online is a total dealbreaker for anybody trying to use them in a live rig

There is no requirement for being online to *use* these synths, only for a one-time activation.

The problem is the small amount of people who enable a network card to go online, and register the software with a hardware fingerprint that includes the card. When they then subsequently disable the network card, the fingerprint changes, which breaks the activation.

By far the majority of people who want to disconnect from the internet simply turn the network or wifi "off", rather than remove the network card. This does not break activation.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:45 pm

That's right, I was mistaken when I originally posted in assuming that I was required to have an always on connection, as I had never needed to before, but as stated it turned out to be that the hardware fingerprint was now tied to the network card specifically and didn't like it being deactivated. The presence of actual internet connectivity itself was not the issue (I have since determined that installing on a macbook for live use where a connection is neither available nor desirable has worked fine). I did work out that I could still disable the network by putting bogus ip address details in the IPv4 settings which leaves the card active but I'm becoming more relaxed now about just leaving it connected all the time.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:43 pm

Here's another issue though that I've only just hit upon - the new collection does not include the Legacy Cell combo wrapper. I never used it much but there was one sound in it that was one of my 'go-to's, so now any song I created that used it needs some repairing if I want to go back to it. Problem being that Korg are retiring the old activation system and transferring everyone to the new version, thus effectively cancelling my ownership of that previous component. Not a biggie, but a certainly a nuisance. Just popping this here in case anyone from Korg happens to frequent such places - it would be helpful to have it reinstated.
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby desmond » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:54 pm

The Legacy Cell was really just a wrapper that allowed you to layer the MS20 and Polysix plugins, with MDE-FX and some routing.

Any DAW can do that job nowadays, so it should be possible to recreate any of those patches using your DAW's facilities, and the MS20, Polysix and MDE plugins. I use Logic, so it's trivial to make a standalone Patch with whatever instrument layers, routing and plugin processing necessary.

What was the patch you needed, and what DAW do you use? I still have the Legacy Cell running here, so perhaps I can help deconstruct..?
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Re: Korg Legacy Collection relaunched as Korg Collection BUT...

Postby Steve A » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:08 pm

Hi Desmond, thanks for the offer! I knew that's all it was and fortunately I can easily replicate a similar sound, it's really just a backward comparability niggle really. It just so happens that it contained a good example of a particular type of string pad that I liked using (I think it was called Big Strings - basically two layered pads layered a couple of octaves apart) so I tended to always reach for it. It's just that I was going through a load of old song files the other night (mainly all the quick and dirty sketches of things you always intend to come back to, of which I have hundreds!) and I realised how often I'd used it when so many of them reported the plug-in missing.

My more pressing beef at the moment is with Arturia who keep superficially revising older instruments in their V Collection effectively making them new plug-ins rather than releasing them as updates which means for backward comparability I need to have multiple back catalogue versions installed and these older ones won't play nicely forever. When the underlying engine itself is no different it's kind of irritating when you're trying to cut down on plug-in bloat!
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