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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:44 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote: .. she talks about how she wired a battery into a vintage telephone handset "to raise the output to line level"... (11:10 into the video). Arrgghh... That's an embarrassing and fundamental non-understanding of the operating principle of a carbon microphone right there...

I was a bit confused by that, but let it slide as it's not unknown for people to mis-speak when on camera.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby arkieboy » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:34 am

Wonks wrote:Certainly on Duke.

Yes, not their finest hour.

Each to their own on this. Certainly there's some foreshadowing of the pop orientation of Face Value which was released the following year, but we'd already seen bits of this on 'And Then There Were Three ...'.

According to wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_(album) most of the album was originally intended to be a 30min extended suite starting with 'Between the Lines' and ending with 'Duke's End' and I rather fancy that the playing order remains faithful to the original sequence, with the only proviso that 'Turn It On' was thought to be strong enough to be a song in its own right rather than a section of a song. If you strip out the faff you're left with one glorious slice of music that stands firmly alongside Trick or Wind.

And forgive me for being contrary here, and as much as I love the Gabriel era, four piece Genesis remain the highlight of the band, the lack of PG allowed Hackett and Banks to really dig into the instrumental sections.

Anyway I digress. I am now utterly torn. Odyssey or Quadra?
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby N i g e l » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:59 am

BJG145 wrote:
Image

That K-2 looks & sounds interesting. :clap: :thumbup:

Not many demos on youtube yet.

The styling is very close to the original; I dont know how they get away with it !
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby ManFromGlass » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:14 pm

Do you think they pay a royalty?
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby N i g e l » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:44 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:Do you think they pay a royalty?

I havent a clue but I would guess no, or maybe at iTunes rates.

I was just a bit shocked to see a copy as the original MS20m is only 5 years old (although as a limited edition, its out of production)


Supermarket own brand products often come close to the originals.


Image

Image

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:26 pm

Now I want biscuits! damn you .... :bouncy:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby BillB » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:54 pm

We've forgotten the crackers, Gromit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvjBv1_5yt4
(about a minute too long, but good fun...)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:05 pm

N i g e l wrote:The styling is very close to the original; I dont know how they get away with it !
They don't 'get away with it' - the whole point is that these things are meant to replicas/clones, as near as possible!
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Arpangel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:04 am

Just had a thought, mostly, it's microphones that I desire, and that's the problem, it's fairly straightforward to recreate a synth these days, but not microphones, because the technology is so precise and expensive to make in the first place, regarding good classic mic's
If it was possible people like Behringer would be doing it, there have been very "crude" copies or attempts at copies made, but they never sound anything like the originals, and people don't buy them as such, not like they buy a replica synth, which sometimes is indistinguishable from the original in terms of sound.
If someone could make a convincing replica of a U47 for a fraction of the price it would sell like hot cakes, but that's never going to happen.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:19 am

Recreations don't sell the way you might think they would.

Some joker watches a YouTube video (or possibly doesn't...) and tells everyone that it and the original are 'night and day' different. Another will watch the same video and say they're identical. Input from people who own both side by side is dismissed as 'opinion'. Then there's a lot of arguing and some of the mud sticks. Wizards' First Rule applies.

And, of course, everyone has their own agenda; from the guy with an original he's selling on eBay, to the guy who can't afford the original one on eBay and wants to feel better about his buying the recreation. Each will argue their stance to the death, even if they don't truly believe in it.

It doesn't matter what the gear is; keyboards, microphones, pre-amps, carburettors, lounge jackets...
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Wonks » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:36 am

Also, the originals now don't sound like they first did, and they will all sound different to other originals. So if you make a mic based on someone's U47, then test it against another U47, then it will sound different and you'll get the panning (or at least a more professional 'close but no cigar') review that The Elf describes above.

Plus some components, such as the valves used, may no longer be made, or have compounds in that are now considered too poisonous to be used. So you have to make changes, and even small changes can make a big difference to the sound.

And some of the old manufacturing techniques simply can't be duplicated by robots, so you need labour intensive assembly, which makes things very expensive. Or else you change the way it gets put together so it can be robot assembled, and then you also change the sound a bit.

You can have a cheapish U47 sounding/looking mic, and which will work very well, but for many it won't 'be' a U47, so will ignore it.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Arpangel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:40 am

Wonks wrote:Also, the originals now don't sound like they first did, and they will all sound different to other originals. So if you make a mic based on someone's U47, then test it against another U47, then it will sound different and you'll get the panning (or at least a more professional 'close but no cigar') review that The Elf describes above.

Plus some components, such as the valves used, may no longer be made, or have compounds in that are now considered too poisonous to be used. So you have to make changes, and even small changes can make a big difference to the sound.

And some of the old manufacturing techniques simply can't be duplicated by robots, so you need labour intensive assembly, which makes things very expensive. Or else you change the way it gets put together so it can be robot assembled, and then you also change the sound a bit.

You can have a cheapish U47 sounding/looking mic, and which will work very well, but for many it won't 'be' a U47, so will ignore it.

All of what you said is the reason why certain expensive mic's still sell, new, and the older ones demand such high prices, otherwise, people wouldn't need to buy them I guess.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:15 pm

Arpangel wrote:J...it's fairly straightforward to recreate a synth these days, but not microphones, because the technology is so precise and expensive to make in the first place, regarding good classic mic's

Were you not around in the 1990s to see what was coming out of China? :lol: or now with what comes out of the American 'boutique manufacturers'. You can't walk around NAMM without tripping over 'homages' to C12s, Elam251s, U67s, KM84s and all the rest...

If someone could make a convincing replica of a U47 for a fraction of the price it would sell like hot cakes, but that's never going to happen.

They do make convincing replicas, but they don't sell like hot cakes because a fraction of the price of an original is still many thousand dollars! ... and really... it just doesn't make that much difference to the recorded sound. :o
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Arpangel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:46 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:J...it's fairly straightforward to recreate a synth these days, but not microphones, because the technology is so precise and expensive to make in the first place, regarding good classic mic's

Were you not around in the 1990s to see what was coming out of China? :lol: or now with what comes out of the American 'boutique manufacturers'. You can't walk around NAMM without tripping over 'homages' to C12s, Elam251s, U67s, KM84s and all the rest...

If someone could make a convincing replica of a U47 for a fraction of the price it would sell like hot cakes, but that's never going to happen.

They do make convincing replicas, but they don't sell like hot cakes because a fraction of the price of an original is still many thousand dollars! ... and really... it just doesn't make that much difference to the recorded sound. :o

But just like cables have to be thick ones, playing in front of a Neumann badge definitely gives my performances a bit of extra mojo....

:)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:59 pm

I've had clients at 'the other place' who have told me they chose to work with me once they saw the 'N' badge on my mic's!
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