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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:09 pm
by DGL.
The BBD's used in the ensemble circuit will be from Behringer's parent company Coolaudio and dependant on the original ones used could be the same or at least similar primarily as Coolaudio only clone a select few BBD chips.

As a side note, if you open one of the new Boss Waza Craft delay pedals guess who's chips are inside :D

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:16 pm
by nathanscribe
My notes tell me the 2nd revision VP-330 used MN3004 and MN3009 BBDs, which are 512- and 256-stage BBDs respectively. I know CoolAudio revived the 3207 and 3205, which a) run on different supplies, and b) are 1024- and 4096-stage respectively. I also know XVive have recently (more recently than the VC340 appeared) revived the MN3009. I also see the original version of the VP-330 used SAD512 and SAD1024 BBDs, which are different again to the later revision. All these changes would require changes to the control circuit in order to maintain the same time delay, otherwise the tone would be quite different.

Maybe when the warranty's out I'll take a look inside and see what they've done, but for now I'm just going to play it. :D

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:08 pm
by The Elf
nathanscribe wrote:The VP had 4 octaves, the VC has 3 and an octave switch (two positions). Three octaves of playing surface might hobble some playing needs...
I don't understand why Behringer would go to all the trouble of recreating this classic machine, get it so right in almost every way (it's even blessed with an internal PSU - thank you!)... only to hobble it with this daft limitation. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Image

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:28 am
by Rich Hanson
I had a DeepMind 6 for a while and for whatever I reason I never found the three octave keyboard restrictive on that, but I do find it a little restrictive on the VC340. Possibly because I treated the DM6 more as a lead instrument playing single lines, whereas the VC340 is obviously geared towards polyphonic parts.

I suspect like many manufacturers they are building to a size as well as a price, and to be honest if that is the case I'd much rather have three octaves of full size keys than four octaves of mini keys. A bit Hobson's Choice though, innit.

However, the sound is gorgeous and you can tear mine out of my cold dead hands :D

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:09 am
by ef37a
Now don't shoot cos I only know a bit about amps and stuff. Keyboards are a a bit of a mystery.

However, if you have just 3 octaves could you get a small, 25 key say, controller and run it as the "left hand" placing it ideally left but could go on top, under?

Dave.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:05 am
by The Elf
Of course there are solutions, but if it had been done properly we wouldn't be having to look for solutions! We would simply be lauding a job well done.

As it is, if I have to hook up another keyboard then it might as well have been a module.

Not a show-stopper, but just such a silly, avoidable problem.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:12 am
by Sam Spoons
A bit like The Doors classic rig of a Rhodes Piano Bass on top of a Vox Continental.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:35 pm
by Escapegoat
I think that Behringer, Roland, Korg, DSI, etc have all spotted that with 0% interest rates everywhere, synth profits are fattest among the got-more-£££s-than-space customers.

The small incremental cost of a 4-oct keyboard over a 3-oct keyboard is completely overshadowed by there being a far smaller market.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:43 pm
by The Elf
An extra octave would generate fewer sales? I find that very hard to believe!

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:20 pm
by Sam Spoons
Sounds distinctly improbable to me too. OTOH if I could find a full sized 44 note midi keyboard with a Berry Model D sized slot in the top and mod/pitch wheels I'd be very happy (I'd want it a Berry money not MiniMoog money mind you.....)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:21 pm
by Dan LB
Sam Spoons wrote:Sounds distinctly improbable to me too. OTOH if I could find a full sized 44 note midi keyboard with a Berry Model D sized slot in the top and mod/pitch wheels I'd be very happy (I'd want it a Berry money not MiniMoog money mind you.....)

OK I know it’s not 44 keys but......
https://waldorfmusic.com/en/kb37

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:25 pm
by Sam Spoons
Yup, I was aware of that and it was the very device that prompted my "Berry money not MiniMoog money" comment :blush: It does look great and, for a non keyboard player, I'm pretty finicky about keyboard actions but that one should be lovely. Sadly £600 is too much, maybe I'll build something with a cheap controller.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:34 am
by Escapegoat
The Elf wrote:An extra octave would generate fewer sales? I find that very hard to believe!

The people in this thread do not represent the majority of either customers of ££££s spent. Like a lot of people here, I suppose, I've got a 4-deck Jaspers stand, and space for two more 5-octave keyboards. Size is not a problem (at least in this area!) for us.

But take one moment to appreciate all of the recent synth successes: Volcas, Boutiques, Minilogues, JD-Xis, Dreadboxes, and dozens of indie synth makers making ... well ... small synths. The Deepmind 12 was roundly criticised for being 4-oct when it had 12 voices. But then was a huge sales success. Same with OB6/P6/etc System 8, JD-XA.

The reason is that today's synth market is dominated by people who do not have as much space as us. Many are still stuck at home with Mum and Dad (did you miss all of those Guardian articles about getting on the housing ladder?). If they don't have space for another big keyboard they won't spend their money on the synth, even if they really want it as a tone generator.

So the synth maker can't sell so many. The market is now far smaller - just blokes like us, who have huge amounts of space, and also don't mind spending the extra £50-100.

(In fact, if people like us buy the 3-oct version as we've got the space and we can just use it with one of our 4-oct or bigger controllers, we will prove that Uli was 100% right to decide on the 3-oct version.)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:51 am
by The Elf
Escapegoat wrote:In fact, if people like us buy the 3-oct version as we've got the space and we can just use it with one of our 4-oct or bigger controllers, we will prove that Uli was 100% right to decide on the 3-oct version.)
Call it Hobson's choice...

If they wanted to help all these poor folk with no space then why add a keyboard at all? I'd have preferred a module (rackable - I have no desktop space!) to this compromise.

'Huge amounts of space'?!?! You obviously haven't seen my studio! I call it 'The Toadstool' for good reason! :lol:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 pm
by Stickman0_3
Will we be seeing a Behringer BX7 and a Brophet VS?

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:04 pm
by DGL.
Well would you like a eurorack/desktop Solina?

Uli Behringer wrote:In the '80's, combining a Solina stringer with a Small Stone phaser was the way to go.

That's our take on it - please ignore the date and price as we haven't decided if and when we will build this recreation.

I would appreciate some feedback from you.

Uli

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachm ... 1556808508

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:20 pm
by Dave B
A bit sad, I know, but I quite fancy the idea of a little Solina module - especially at pocket money prices. My only reservation would be that it it's a bit of a shot across the bows of Waldorf as they already have a small / cheap string synth module. Will be interesting to see if they do build it.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:35 pm
by The Elf
I hope they do this one. It's hard to resist these little gems at these prices. Lovely stuff...

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:04 am
by Stickman0_3
Also, a Behringer version of the PPG Wave 2.3?

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 1:48 am
by Agharta
What about a Behringer BBC Radiophonic Workshop that comes in its own Tardis so that's it's small enough to fit in your studio! :mrgreen: