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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:03 am
by Adam Inglis
Arpangel wrote:[
But that's the trouble Elf, often it's really good, not worse in terms of sonics, the build and ergonomics may not be "ideal" but the sound is fine.

But that's it exactly... "ergonomics" (which I think probably includes the hard-to-define term "playability" of an instrument) is EXTREMELY important to musicians, and gets more important the more experienced you are, because it has a huge effect on creative flow.
It's not just the "sound", it's what you can do with it with your two hands in real time.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:39 am
by blinddrew
Exactly this. I could buy a kit guitar, build it in a day, and the specifications would be virtually the same as whatever model it was based on. Wouldn't play, look or feel like a Fender/Gibson/whatever though. :)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:57 am
by Arpangel
Adam Inglis wrote:
Arpangel wrote:[
But that's the trouble Elf, often it's really good, not worse in terms of sonics, the build and ergonomics may not be "ideal" but the sound is fine.

But that's it exactly... "ergonomics" (which I think probably includes the hard-to-define term "playability" of an instrument) is EXTREMELY important to musicians, and gets more important the more experienced you are, because it has a huge effect on creative flow.
It's not just the "sound", it's what you can do with it with your two hands in real time.

Absolutely true, but it depends on the clone, the knobs on the Berry D are small, but you get used to them, you can get used to anything. Connect a decent controller keyboard to it and you can be as expressive as you like. I really can't imagine it having a negative impact on my creative flow.
What I personally don't like are small keys, like on the Korg MS20 mini, they are just a step too far, and short keyboards too, they really do limit me in terms of just playing the thing.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:49 pm
by DGL.
And another one, looks like their first prototype eurorack module (if you exclude the boog/neutron/pro one Etc.).
Going from a post on gearslutz it looks identical in layout to the Moog 921B VCO.

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 am
by Dan LB
DGL. wrote:And another one, looks like their first prototype eurorack module (if you exclude the boog/neutron/pro one Etc.).
Going from a post on gearslutz it looks identical in layout to the Moog 921B VCO.

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Not identical. The 921B has 7 patch points - this has 11...... very interesting though :clap:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:23 am
by DGL.
ooh.. and anybody want a eurorack MS20?, there was a leaked photo of a beta unit but no other info was released, and well they have gone BOOM! and released it just like that, no teaser/ask for your suggestions campaign, no teasing of PCB's or anything like that.

Behringer Facebook wrote:2,000 K-2 synthesizers ready to ship.

We hear people constantly complaining that we're announcing too early and never ship anything. This time we kept quiet:-)

More to come...

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:50 am
by The Elf
Not something I've ever been interested in, but I bet that one will be a good seller!

The MS20 is one of those synths that held absolutely no interest to anyone for decades, then suddenly acquired this mystical status. Odd the way the world works...

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:18 am
by nathanscribe
It's probably built better than the Korg MS-20 mini as well. I like Korg, but they made a pig's ear out of that one. Wonky pots, rattly jacks, terrible keys. Good job it sounds really good.

The Behringer has a switch for both filters, too. Not really sure how different they sound, but it's there at least.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:26 am
by Sam Spoons
I worked in MI retail when the MS10/20 was released. We had a MiniMoog, a Korg 700S and an ARP Odyssey in stock when the MS20 arrived and compared to any of them it sounded weak and gutless. The only thing it had going for it was the patch panel (and the price compared to the big boys).

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:40 am
by Arpangel
Not more modular, I can't handle all this anymore, there's just too much stuff around, and most of it a variation on a theme by....
There really is so much stuff being released, how can anyone keep up? It's enough having one complicated keyboard to master, how people deal with all this hardware leaves me mystified, and we haven't even talked about software, it's just all too much.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:08 pm
by CS70
Arpangel wrote:Not more modular, I can't handle all this anymore, there's just too much stuff around, and most of it a variation on a theme by....
There really is so much stuff being released, how can anyone keep up? It's enough having one complicated keyboard to master, how people deal with all this hardware leaves me mystified, and we haven't even talked about software, it's just all too much.

Nothing to worry about, I'd say. People are different and - as a musician - what matters if you produce music or not (or at least play :).

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:49 pm
by Dave B
Funny enough, I might be interested in the ms 20 clone. It depends on the pricepoint. I too remember them as being 'meh' at the time when people wanted minimoogs, but that's kind of the point : it's not a minimoog, it's different. And I like the idea of a patch panel for some stuff. Interesting.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:29 pm
by blinddrew
Arpangel wrote:Not more modular, I can't handle all this anymore, there's just too much stuff around, and most of it a variation on a theme by....
There really is so much stuff being released, how can anyone keep up? It's enough having one complicated keyboard to master, how people deal with all this hardware leaves me mystified, and we haven't even talked about software, it's just all too much.
I'm sure DavyP will be along in ten minutes with a suitable demo! :D

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:31 pm
by DavyP
blinddrew wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Not more modular, I can't handle all this anymore, there's just too much stuff around, and most of it a variation on a theme by....
There really is so much stuff being released, how can anyone keep up? It's enough having one complicated keyboard to master, how people deal with all this hardware leaves me mystified, and we haven't even talked about software, it's just all too much.
I'm sure DavyP will be along in ten minutes with a suitable demo! :D

Doing a demo is nice, but I'm sort of being worn down. I like to try new things and then I often get hammered for doing so. To the point where I no longer share my music on the various forums. Apart from here because it's different, I like here because there is a proper knowledge base. I do my demo's but when I get feedback here, that's real, useful and genuine and I take it on board. You know it's coming from people with experience, anyway enough ass kissing you f***, but you know what I mean, I've learnt a lot here and listened to advice from eddy, martin, blindrew etc and that has helped me a lot. :clap:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:49 pm
by BillB
Dave B wrote:Funny enough, I might be interested in the ms 20 clone. It depends on the pricepoint. I too remember them as being 'meh' at the time when people wanted minimoogs, but that's kind of the point : it's not a minimoog, it's different. And I like the idea of a patch panel for some stuff. Interesting.

First time around (70's / 80's / 90's), very few of us could afford more than one or a couple of synths, so it mattered that the one poly / mono etc could cover the bases with sufficient power and presence. That is not the case any more. Those of us who like hardware now have a vast choice in the second-hand and new market, at prices we once could not have dreamt of.

So now the issue is not whether an MS-20 sounds better than a MiniMoog, but whether it brings something sonically or operationally different.

And yes, if Behringer can do the MS-20 (or Odyssey etc) reissue better than Korg, there is a lesson to be learned for Korg. I was only thinking the other day how I would like an MS20 'mini' without the keyboard!

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:49 pm
by arkieboy
It takes something to get my synth drool on these days, but I have to say that the Odyssey has me utterly ga-ga.

To me its the sound of the workshop in the 70s and why I almost was a keyboardist instead of a guitarist.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:05 pm
by DavyP
I don't care what synth sounds like what, I want to do one of those Eddy and mates demos, they sound good, and I think I could offer something to them also, providing they listen to me lol, and we could make a smash hit! lol

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:18 pm
by The Elf
There is thing 'thing' where old=good, and the longer it goes on, the less newcomers question it. There are some truly rubbish old synths, but I now see them revered every day as objects of desire.

Did the MS-20 share a filter with the MonoPoly? That's the only old Korg synth that ever made me drool. Resonance without bass loss - nice.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:44 pm
by nathanscribe
The Elf wrote:Did the MS-20 share a filter with the MonoPoly? That's the only old Korg synth that ever made me drool. Resonance without bass loss - nice.

MS-20 had two filter types: early models had the Korg35 potted discrete transistor blob, which has been revived without the potting now for the Monotrons and the new MS models; later originals had a dual OTA.

The MonoPoly used an SSM filter chip.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:20 am
by Arpangel
The Elf wrote:There is thing 'thing' where old=good, and the longer it goes on, the less newcomers question it. There are some truly rubbish old synths, but I now see them revered every day as objects of desire.

I can remember hearin an MS20 when it came out, it didn't make any special impression on me, apart from the patch bay. I bought a Moog Prodigy instead, even though it had less bells and whistles than the Korg, it sounded just right, and I recorded lots of left field stuff with it, one note on the Moog had more feel and vibe than a complicated patch on an MS20 for me. Moog "is" good, and always will be.
A friend had a Korg MS10, I like that more than the MS20, and I'd like one today, it's got a lovely solidity and purity to the sound, which for some reason the MS20 doesn't have.