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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:56 am
by Arpangel
DGL. wrote:and the latest tease,

Behringer Facebook wrote:"Caption this..."
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I'm just trying to get my head around this whole concept of synth recreations and the compromises people will accept to have even a recreation of the original.
Just imagine if you applied this to classic cars...

The new Berrari F50 designed to give you the exact performance and feel of the original, but certain "new features" have been implemented to fit in with current market preferences and parts availability.....size has been considerably reduced to allow parking on restricted desk-tops, also, a far less polluting and enviromentally friendly 1.4 litre 4 cylinder hybrid engine has been fitted, we think the savings in weight over the original 4.7 litre V12 are considerable, and will enable sharper more precise handling during those difficult to play Rick Wakeman solos.
Along with comprehensive engine management options controllable via Midi and USB, you'll agree, that this recreation could become a classic in its own right.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:51 am
by cyrano.mac
You can't stop progress...

Many supercars used to have a Ford V8. The easiest way out to get some muscle in there. Today, Nissan (or Mitsubishi?) is testing a 1,5 liter four cilinder at Le Mans. The thing makes 400 HP, without even going into crazy high RPM.

I was just watching this vid, with Sylvia Massey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnHEHzFOFU

It's enlightening. From the gimmick, (the pickle) to the interesting. And the interesting is that any gear can do, if you're creative. Sylvia's even got an AKG C1000 and found a use for that. The C1000 is one of the most dreaded mics on the interwebs.

It shows that it isn't the gear you use, but what you do with it.

Of course, a Behringer won't sound exactly the same as it's 50 years old original. Why? Because that original doesn't sound the same as it did when it was new. Besides, I've never come across vintage gear that sounded the same as another one...

Vintage gear sounds great. Because of the way our memory works. We tend to remember the great ones and forget about the bad ones.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:15 pm
by Dan LB
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Gordon likes it -- it has hidden talents and depths... ;-)

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/arp-quadra-part-1
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/arp-quadra-part-2

H

Thanks for that Hugh. Very interesting read...... and if Gordon likes it.....


........nuff said :thumbup:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:56 am
by Arpangel
cyrano.mac wrote:You can't stop progress...

Many supercars used to have a Ford V8. The easiest way out to get some muscle in there. Today, Nissan (or Mitsubishi?) is testing a 1,5 liter four cilinder at Le Mans. The thing makes 400 HP, without even going into crazy high RPM.

I was just watching this vid, with Sylvia Massey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnHEHzFOFU

It's enlightening. From the gimmick, (the pickle) to the interesting. And the interesting is that any gear can do, if you're creative. Sylvia's even got an AKG C1000 and found a use for that. The C1000 is one of the most dreaded mics on the interwebs.

It shows that it isn't the gear you use, but what you do with it.

Of course, a Behringer won't sound exactly the same as it's 50 years old original. Why? Because that original doesn't sound the same as it did when it was new. Besides, I've never come across vintage gear that sounded the same as another one...

Vintage gear sounds great. Because of the way our memory works. We tend to remember the great ones and forget about the bad ones.

I think if we disregard ultimate authenticity and performance, it's really about feel, emotion, and inspiration regarding buying real vintage instruments. The wow factor before you've even played a note. Those thick aluminium side panels, the sea of multi coloured switches and knobs, the sheer size, it's all part of the whole experience for the player, and also, let's not forget, the audience. I could easily take Hauptwerk and a laptop into a church and play the organ, but it would die in comparison to hearing and "seeing" those wonderful pipes and console surrounding me.
I'm a car nut too, and I would be the first to admit absolutely, that any decent modern high performance car will run rings around its vintage counterpart. But vintage Ferraris and the like still sell for millions, and the reason is what I said above, and I want to feel like I'm actually driving something, not virtually being driven by the car.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:16 am
by BJG145
The way their Odyssey is presented in Google is a bit unfortunate,

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:24 am
by Hugh Robjohns
:lol: :bouncy: :oops:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:13 am
by Arpangel
Hugh Robjohns wrote::lol: :bouncy: :oops:

Hugh, thought I'd mention this, totally off-topic, but cars?
There just happens to be, totally beyond belief, a guy a few streets away from me with a Griff that looks exactly like mine, colour etc, I saw him parked in Tescos, and wandered over to have a chat, I said "how are you getting on with it?" His words were.....

It scares me to "b****y death"

:)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:17 am
by Hugh Robjohns
Arpangel wrote:I said "how are you getting on with it?" His words were.....
It scares me to "b****y death"
:)

Probably a good attitude to have towards it to stay alive! :thumbup:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:10 am
by Hugh Robjohns
cyrano.mac wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnHEHzFOFU

It's enlightening. From the gimmick, (the pickle) to the interesting. And the interesting is that any gear can do, if you're creative. Sylvia's even got an AKG C1000 and found a use for that.

:lol: I can think of lots of uses for the C1000 too... and not all of them as the designers intended... :o

Huge respect for Sylvia's work, and -- as you say -- creativity trumps almost everything else... -- but not safety!

Am I the only one that gets really frustrated when someone so apparently knowledgable spouts utter technical rubbish in a way that others are likely to believe to be true! For example, she talks about how she wired a battery into a vintage telephone handset "to raise the output to line level"... (11:10 into the video). Arrgghh... That's an embarrassing and fundamental non-understanding of the operating principle of a carbon microphone right there...

In case anyone is still reading my mini-rant... diaphragm movement in a carbon button microphone causes varying pressure between carbon granules which results in a varying resistance, but that can only be translated into a varying electrical voltage -- which is what most mic preamps require -- if the capsule is biased with a DC voltage -- hence the need for the battery. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "raising the signal to line level"... :crazy: Hope she get's it right for her new book... ;)

And hopefully, the story about the band and the faulty amp is embellished... because it's quite horrific to think Sylvia would encourage and allow anyone to use a known dangerously faulty amp (16:20)... :o :o :o :o

H

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:20 am
by Arpangel
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I said "how are you getting on with it?" His words were.....
It scares me to "b****y death"
:)

Probably a good attitude to have towards it to stay alive! :thumbup:

The only reason I haven't "floored it" yet is because I'm scared of ending up facing the opposite direction.
I need to go on a track day, where I can really get a feel for how it behaves at limits.
Better get back on topic now!

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:44 pm
by Dave B
Hugh Robjohns wrote: .. she talks about how she wired a battery into a vintage telephone handset "to raise the output to line level"... (11:10 into the video). Arrgghh... That's an embarrassing and fundamental non-understanding of the operating principle of a carbon microphone right there...

I was a bit confused by that, but let it slide as it's not unknown for people to mis-speak when on camera.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:34 am
by arkieboy
Wonks wrote:Certainly on Duke.

Yes, not their finest hour.

Each to their own on this. Certainly there's some foreshadowing of the pop orientation of Face Value which was released the following year, but we'd already seen bits of this on 'And Then There Were Three ...'.

According to wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_(album) most of the album was originally intended to be a 30min extended suite starting with 'Between the Lines' and ending with 'Duke's End' and I rather fancy that the playing order remains faithful to the original sequence, with the only proviso that 'Turn It On' was thought to be strong enough to be a song in its own right rather than a section of a song. If you strip out the faff you're left with one glorious slice of music that stands firmly alongside Trick or Wind.

And forgive me for being contrary here, and as much as I love the Gabriel era, four piece Genesis remain the highlight of the band, the lack of PG allowed Hackett and Banks to really dig into the instrumental sections.

Anyway I digress. I am now utterly torn. Odyssey or Quadra?

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:59 am
by N i g e l
BJG145 wrote:
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That K-2 looks & sounds interesting. :clap: :thumbup:

Not many demos on youtube yet.

The styling is very close to the original; I dont know how they get away with it !

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:14 pm
by ManFromGlass
Do you think they pay a royalty?

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:44 pm
by N i g e l
ManFromGlass wrote:Do you think they pay a royalty?

I havent a clue but I would guess no, or maybe at iTunes rates.

I was just a bit shocked to see a copy as the original MS20m is only 5 years old (although as a limited edition, its out of production)


Supermarket own brand products often come close to the originals.


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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:26 pm
by Dave B
Now I want biscuits! damn you .... :bouncy:

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:54 pm
by BillB
We've forgotten the crackers, Gromit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvjBv1_5yt4
(about a minute too long, but good fun...)

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:05 pm
by The Elf
N i g e l wrote:The styling is very close to the original; I dont know how they get away with it !
They don't 'get away with it' - the whole point is that these things are meant to replicas/clones, as near as possible!

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:04 am
by Arpangel
Just had a thought, mostly, it's microphones that I desire, and that's the problem, it's fairly straightforward to recreate a synth these days, but not microphones, because the technology is so precise and expensive to make in the first place, regarding good classic mic's
If it was possible people like Behringer would be doing it, there have been very "crude" copies or attempts at copies made, but they never sound anything like the originals, and people don't buy them as such, not like they buy a replica synth, which sometimes is indistinguishable from the original in terms of sound.
If someone could make a convincing replica of a U47 for a fraction of the price it would sell like hot cakes, but that's never going to happen.

Re: the latest Behringer-gate

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:19 am
by The Elf
Recreations don't sell the way you might think they would.

Some joker watches a YouTube video (or possibly doesn't...) and tells everyone that it and the original are 'night and day' different. Another will watch the same video and say they're identical. Input from people who own both side by side is dismissed as 'opinion'. Then there's a lot of arguing and some of the mud sticks. Wizards' First Rule applies.

And, of course, everyone has their own agenda; from the guy with an original he's selling on eBay, to the guy who can't afford the original one on eBay and wants to feel better about his buying the recreation. Each will argue their stance to the death, even if they don't truly believe in it.

It doesn't matter what the gear is; keyboards, microphones, pre-amps, carburettors, lounge jackets...