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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby desmond » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:26 pm

I read a lot of comments about how important "innovation" is, and how products/companies are not being innovative enough, and I struggle with it a little.

I really got into the larger world of professional synths and recording tech a more or less the time the DX7 hit. Analog synths, even programmable polys had been around for a while, everyone was recording to tape recorders.

MIDI was just starting. I watched digital synths happen, with new ways of control and visualization, completely new sound palettes making sounds playble that never before heard. Samplers had started to happen, and that whole thing. Hom computer started to become useful, and in conjunction with MIDI, let you compose, edit an visualise music, save and load sounds and samples in new ways. Digital recording started to happen. Digital FX, then multi-FX. Audio started to be added to sequencers - the DAW was born. Then virtual instruments, free downloadable complete synths, samplers and FX... and so on.

That whole time was ripe with innovation, new tools and methods that let people make sounds never before heard, create an shape music in sophisticated was. It completely changed modern music production, in many ways. (Even to the point of destroying the music industry.)

What do we have now? We have more powerful tools, with more available sounds. Our DAWs still work, but can do more at once. We have plugins that do everything the old hardware used to do, often in excruciating detail.

But innovation? Sure, there are great products, but when was the last time a synthesizer came out that genuinely let you make sounds never before possible? Synthesis methods are fairly mature, and it's not like completely new synthesis methods are coming along every few years.

Granted, I'm middle aged now so my desire for novelty is far far less than the current kids making music. But everytime I see a new synthesizer released, I see a sexy looking box that everyone is going to be making the same old sounds with. The modular craze? A fun way of being able to buy relatively inexpensive distraction gadgets to make wibble noises with. And even with all the incredible, accessible things we have at our disposal, people complain about a new product not being "innovative", as if they can't make music with anything they've already got. And then when something genuinely new comes out, no one buys it and the company dies - plenty of examples of this over the years. Because people are *actually* quite conservative, in the main, despite what the might protest otherwise online. (That's why all this "old" stuff is being repackaged and sold effectively, whether analog modular synths, software emulations, vintage hardware etc.)

Write some bloody songs, say something meaningful, push for more than a four bar loop with kick drums of every beat while twiddling a filter control. Use what you have creatively, in new ways. Be your own innovation.

Of course, that is harder than just buying something... :headbang:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:33 pm

as for the UB-Xa the first video of the development process with Rob and Pete asking for feedback on what people want,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp-UmxMDXKQ

Firstly, they have an original OB-Xa so they have got something to work from
Secondly, they were adamant it had to sound exactly like the original
Thirdly, parent company coolaudio have the required 3340 and 3320 copy available so the main sound generation and filter bits should be exact.

Also the plan is to have a computer generated VCA (to replace the 3310) and for the LFO using high speed DAC's and modern ARM processors, the VCA being modelled to behave like the 3310, also high speed DACs will replace all trimpots (esp. on the voice section) and the user will have access to these to get adjustable slop. The will also be no tape interface as it is seen as not needed when MIDI is available.

It is also planned to be pretty much the same as the original and not expanded like the DM12 is compared to it's Juno influence.

Another bit of information is one of the contributors on the thread over on gearslutz and who is giving his 2p is someone who actually worked/helped design the OB-Xa in the first place so it all looks to be going in the right direction.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:50 pm

desmond wrote:Write some bloody songs, say something meaningful, push for more than a four bar loop with kick drums of every beat while twiddling a filter control. Use what you have creatively, in new ways. Be your own innovation.

Of course, that is harder than just buying something... :headbang:

You know, that would make a great op-ed for SoS.

CC
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:36 am

But all the good tunes have already being written (and, apparently, the bloke with the red face and horns :evil: has the best of them) :headbang:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:45 pm

Another little addendum, as is known they plan to use software envelopes and have done tests on their OB-Xa to model their behaviour, this has been done at various temperatures to see what temperature correlation there is.
They plan to have a temperature sensor somewhere inside the unit that will be linked to how the envelopes react!, so that they will have the correct envelope behaviour in respect to temperature, what such detail they are going into. Gives you a lot of confidence that this is going to be really great.

There may also be an option for an "aged" mode to replicate how an original OB-Xa has aged over the years, again, measured from their own OB-Xa.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:31 am

The prototype VC340 is now in the hands of Mr Firechild a sweedish bloke that appears to be very talented and more importantly has an original VP330 Mk. 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E2oumeL_-4

According to the comments on the youtube video by himself it nails the VP330 sound. The sound might be a bit 'clean' in the video but that is due to effects used on the microphone before it enters the VC340 to make the vocoder more intelligible.

It's still not known whether this will enter production as they need to know that they are going to sell enough to make it cheap enough to produce (boutique pricing is not their thing happily) whilst not loosing money.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 am

A shame that piece concentrates so much on the vocoder, which I will never use. No doubt isolated demos of the choir and strings will be along soon.

Model D arriving on Monday... :bouncy:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:15 pm

Confused. It's a nice piece that shows off the vocoder a bit, but if he already has a real VP330, then wouldn't a series of A/B comparisons be a better idea?

But then I'm just confused generally ... ;)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:47 pm

Dave B wrote:Confused. It's a nice piece that shows off the vocoder a bit, but if he already has a real VP330, then wouldn't a series of A/B comparisons be a better idea?

But then I'm just confused generally ... ;)

There will be A/B comparisons but I'm guessing he wanted to do somethin g a bit different as the first video, but from what I understand he claims it's spot on.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby SecretSam » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:But all the good tunes have already being written (and, apparently, the bloke with the red face and horns :evil: has the best of them) :headbang:

So The Messiah was a false-flag operation ? And James Ingram has some explaining to do. Jah Mo' Be There, indeed.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Agharta » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:24 pm

Rich Hanson wrote:New guitars aren't exactly innovative either, the violin hasn't changed for years etc etc, so why get upset about old instrument designs still being used if they are offering sounds that people want?

desmond wrote:Granted, I'm middle aged now so my desire for novelty is far far less than the current kids making music.
…….
Because people are *actually* quite conservative, in the main, despite what the might protest otherwise online. (That's why all this "old" stuff is being repackaged and sold effectively, whether analog modular synths, software emulations, vintage hardware etc.

This thread is seemingly about hardware synths so the issue may be the same as with the guitar in that the controller itself is a limiting factor to a degree and that breeds conservatism!
There are new things happening with other types of controllers for synthesizers but that is a separate category I suppose and not so much for the Conservatoire or the conservative.
I think synthesis is heathy, the alternative controller market is very interesting but maybe the mainstream keyboard market with only black and white keys is just seen as old rather than old skool which implies a certain cool.
Things go in cycles and with the current interest in vinyl and even cameras with film maybe keyboard synths will be in vogue again soon and will get more TLC.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby pax-eterna » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:14 am

The Elf wrote:..............Whilst I have been critical of Behringer's batant plagiarism of contemporary gear, with that list the products are long out of production, with no chance of the original makers picking up the reins. For this reason I see no reason for the likes of Behringer to champion re-makes - and good luck to them if they do.

At least Behringer are giving people what they want - which is more than can be said for much bigger names in the industry...

^^^^^This!
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:48 pm

New Post from Uli over at Gearslutz,

He has decided that it WILL go into production at a cost of $799.99 excl. tax.
Weather it will ake any money or not is another thing but he's the boss and grateful that he is too.

So if anybody wants an exact clone of the VP330 (and listening to Mr Firechilds 2nd video it sounds EXACTLY like his VP330) then here it is. No word on release date but who cares.

p.s. It will be able to play the full 49 keys over midi but that's it, understandable given the technology it uses (divide down).
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dan LB » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:47 pm

Had a look at that video earlier today and I have to say it sounds unbelievably similar to the real deal! Very impressed! :clap:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:19 am

Interesting. At that price, it comes down to a choice between this and the Waldorf STVC. And, to be honest, I think I'd rather have the Waldorf - the VP330 is great and I'm sure that this VC340 will be just as great, but I think I'd rather have something a little different.

But then I'm just fickle like that! ;)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby feline1 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:27 pm

The VP330 was cool in it's day but it is one of those pieces of kit that just about managed to sound as good on records as it did when pimped up in the studio, and is my no means the best ever string synth or best ever vocoder ever made... so making an exact clone of it all these years later seems pointless to me. It's not gonna automagically mean that everyone can make a record as cool as O Superman or Radio Ga Ga. :p
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 am

I would contend that the VP-330's strings *are*, for me, the best string synth ever made. That, and the fact that the choir has simply never been reproduced satisfactorily by ANY other instrument makes it a very desirable re-make.

It has certainly been high on my desirability list for a very long time, but it has always remained one of those instruments that has been on the high side of value for money. If Behringer can bring this in at their suggested price then it falls into my 'have to buy' territory.

One thing that *my* VC-340 will never be doing is producing 'robot voice' vocoder sounds. I never liked it back in the day and I certainly don't like it now...
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby feline1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:29 pm

well, I have a fair few early 80s records (e.g. John Foxx "The Garden" and YMO's "Solid State Survivor") where I can hear a mile off that they're using a VP330 and it sounds a bit wick and we all know they really wanted to be using a Mellotron M400 with the 8-voice choir tape set :)
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Dave B » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Damn you feline!!

You mentioned Solid State Survivor so I go to check it out. Yes, the VP is all over Castalia. But then I have to listen to Absolute Ego Dance whenever I see it. And that inevitably leads me to their cover of Tighten Up.

And now it's stuck in my head again. And will be for some time.

Ho hum. There are worse things that can happen ....

"Here we go .... again"

:D
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby feline1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:21 pm

Rydeen or GTFO! :bouncy:
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