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the latest Behringer-gate

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:07 pm

Eddy Deegan wrote:
DGL. wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:Well my Berry Pro One is now pre-ordered. No idea of ETA but it would be nice to come home to it on the 17th :thumbup:

Well f you ordered from Thomann then they have them in stock, would expect 2-4 days, though I believe Germany has another holiday after new year.

I always use my local gear supplier when I can, even if it takes a little longer. They have always been good to me and I'm a big believer in supporting the local bricks-n-mortar establishments in general!
Plus you'll get a PSU with UK pins on it. I've stopped ordering anything with a PSU from Thomann due to their insistance that it's OK to give me Euro plugs, or, at best, a very cheap and unreliable adapter.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:09 pm

Me too, and they don't even have to 'match' a price, just get close enough*. Which is why I'm still waiting for my dodgy Use S1 Pro to come back from Belgium.

* I've just bought a 'B Stock' Akai EWI 5000 off ebay 'cos it was £100+ cheaper than even Thomann could do.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby BillB » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:34 am

The Elf wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Yep, the Dimension D is still revered in many circles 8-)

I've lost count of the number of forum threads I've read discussing which guitar chorus pedal can give the closest results to the Dimension D, because that's the effect most people want :beamup:
Well I can tell you that the Dimension C pedal comes damned close, because I have one of those here too!

Yep, The Dim D has a truly inspiring sound. Most often I'm using it for subtle widening, but throw an Oberheim synth pad through it and angels will hug your ears!

Here’s hoping they make a better job of it than TC Electronic did of the atrocious June 60 Chorus. It was the definition of over-promising and under-delivering. So maybe if/when they get the Dimension D right, they could bring out a pedal version...
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby nathanscribe » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:01 pm

BillB wrote:Here’s hoping they make a better job of it than TC Electronic did of the atrocious June 60 Chorus. It was the definition of over-promising and under-delivering. So maybe if/when they get the Dimension D right, they could bring out a pedal version...

Well, there's already the Boss DC-2w but it's probably more expensive than anything Behringer would do. Behringer did release the "Chorus Space" CC-300 a few years ago which was basically the old Dimension C pedal (mono in, stereo out, 4 buttons). Plasticky and plagued by Blinding Blue LED syndrome, and discontinued.

Neither of these circuits are the same as the Juno, mind.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:59 pm

From what I could tell (and I'm only basing an opinion on YouTube videos) that June Chorus did miss the mark by a country mile. I'm not sure how they could have got it so wrong. Maybe it has something to do with the re-think that accompanied the outcry when it was going to be a mono device, or maybe they mucked up the wet/dry mix - it did sound like a wibbly-wobbly affair, rather like a raw, un-mixed chorus circuit.

But the other recent KT stuff is actually very good, so there's hope yet.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:31 pm

nathanscribe wrote:
BillB wrote:Here’s hoping they make a better job of it than TC Electronic did of the atrocious June 60 Chorus. It was the definition of over-promising and under-delivering. So maybe if/when they get the Dimension D right, they could bring out a pedal version...

Well, there's already the Boss DC-2w but it's probably more expensive than anything Behringer would do.

It's part Behringer inside though :lol:
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Folderol » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:18 pm

I've noticed Behringer have been quietly buying up quite a lot of legacy supplies, and control of their production. This will bear watching.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby DGL. » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:25 pm

Folderol wrote:I've noticed Behringer have been quietly buying up quite a lot of legacy supplies, and control of their production. This will bear watching.

Yes if they need primarily analogue chips that are generally unobtanium then they will get their semiconductor division, Coolaudio, to have them made. Coolaudio being originally established when Behringer acquired Intersil's Coolaudio amplifier technology. Even DSI used to use their products recently claiming they had no idea they were linked to Behringer :roll: Yeah right.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby baward » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:59 pm

DGL. wrote:And KT are going to make this now, https://www.klarkteknik.com/Categories/ ... rans(en|en)

Handy, I need something to fill up a space in my rack!
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby BillB » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:08 pm

The Boss SX-700 rack has the following amongst its Modulation settings:
'Space Chorus' This chorus effect simulates the sound from Roland's well known SDD-320 Dimension D.
Md Ctl - Modulation On/Off
Md Typ - Modulation Type
Input - Input Mode: Mono, Stero
Mode - Space Mode: 1, 2, 3, 4, 1+4, 2+4, 3+4

It's not 'proper analogue' of course, but I must give it a careful listen sometime.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:48 pm

Whenever I see a reference to Boss chorus effects and the Dimension D, I always reach for my Boss SE-70 manual and personal notes, which state:

SE-70 Wave Chorus, a 3-phase chorus effect similar to the ones used in:

a) Roland VP-330 vocoder ensemble section - has two delay modulation circuits, one fast and one slow.

b) RS-505 Paraphonic keyboard - has four delay modulation circuits for richer effect.

...both of which are (apparently) based on the Dimension D chorus effect unit.


Here's its block diagram:

SE70-Wave-chorus.jpg


Any comments from the Dimension D experts?


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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:08 pm

Here's a wonderfully detailed reference explaining the various Roland Dimension types:

https://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Sti ... _main.html

Oh, and here's a good set of audio demos of the Dimension C pedal in action:

http://www.modezero.com/boss_dimension_c.htm


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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:50 pm

The thing with the Dim D is that it works its magic without sounding overtly like chorus - it's quite a trick. Hard to appreciate until you've heard it. Put it on a send and add the bare minimum to get widening without being obvious - wonderful. This is the reason its still in my rack - and will probably remain there.

TBH my Dim C pedal is just there as a safety net - it rarely gets an outing.

Given that Behringer have absolutely nailed the VP-330, if there's a design/hardware commonality I see no reason they can't nail the Dim D too.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:12 am

The Elf wrote:The thing with the Dim D is that it works its magic without sounding overtly like chorus - it's quite a trick. Hard to appreciate until you've heard it. Put it on a send and add the bare minimum to get widening without being obvious - wonderful. This is the reason its still in my rack - and will probably remain there.

I'm beginning to see the attraction, judging by this audio file from the 'birth of a synth' link I posted above:

https://www.birthofasynth.com/Scott_Sti ... ompare.mp3

"The first part is the DW6000 dry.

The second part is the same DW6000 voice, but modulated by the Dim C in Mode 4.

The third part is still the same DW6000 voice, but now only the right channel, wet, can be heard.

Notice the modulation is actually *not* a smooth sinusoidal shift up and down, but appears rather more trapezoidal in nature. It's truly amazing to listen to 'one side' of the chorus, then kick in the other side - the transformation is nothing short of magical, IMO."


I think the second part illustrates what you're describing very well, and that's the Mode 4 (most extreme) setting - Mode 1 must be a sublime richness with little or no obvious movement!


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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:59 am

Here's a quick demo of my Oberheim Xpander, first dry, then with Dim D on a send...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yntcyt4v3zicque/Dim%20D%20Demo.wav?dl=0

This is on setting 2, which is my favourite for subtle widening of synth pads.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:57 pm

The Elf wrote:Here's a quick demo of my Oberheim Xpander, first dry, then with Dim D on a send...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yntcyt4v3zicque/Dim%20D%20Demo.wav?dl=0

This is on setting 2, which is my favourite for subtle widening of synth pads.

Thanks - just downloaded that for future reference (and plug-in comparisons ;) ). Yes, I see what you mean about it being subtle, but still rich.

Nice!


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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:19 am

The Elf wrote:Here's a quick demo of my Oberheim Xpander, first dry, then with Dim D on a send...

This is on setting 2, which is my favourite for subtle widening of synth pads.

It's lovely, but it does appear to cancel itself out completely when summed to mono... which could be good or bad depending on your point of view!

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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
The Elf wrote:Here's a quick demo of my Oberheim Xpander, first dry, then with Dim D on a send...

This is on setting 2, which is my favourite for subtle widening of synth pads.
It's lovely, but it does appear to cancel itself out completely when summed to mono... which could be good or bad depending on your point of view!
:wtf: That doesn't happen here! It doesn't cancel out at all - it just goes into mono.
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby The Elf » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:34 pm

Here's the Dimension D without any dry signal - in stereo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvc46kxmb9a9tiw/Dim%20D%20Only%20Stereo.wav?dl=0

And here's the Dimension D without any dry signal - summed to mono (mono option in Cubase export):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7yms5k0jv95esr/Dim%20D%20Only%20Mono.wav?dl=0
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Re: the latest Behringer-gate

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:39 pm

Playing your demo (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yntcyt4v3zicq ... o.wav?dl=0) , the DimD is switched in around 18 seconds in, and the synth gains a stereo width and fuller, more interesting sound at that point, as you'd expect.

But listening in mono there is no change to the synth sound at all as you run through the 18 second point. Thus, the stereo chorus effect is all in the Side channel and disappears for mono listeners, leaving just the raw synth sound.

... or maybe I've misunderstood how you created the demo...
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