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Behringer Model D

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Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:00 pm

I've been playing with my new Model D and comparing it to my real MiniMoog. As far as I can match the controls on the two synths (which is tougher than you might imagine)...

...this is a MiniMoog.

Not *like* a MiniMoog. Not *similar* to a MiniMoog. It's a MiniMoog.

Actually it improves on the real Mini, with the extra mod LFO, the additional mod/filter options and the CV sockets. So far the tuning is more consistent too, which is no bad thing. To my surprise the controls even feel expensively smooth and silky. All this for 300 quid!

The only significant deviation from my Mini is when using the old feedback loop trick to drive the filter. The Model D sounds nothing like my Mini when doing this. Then again, I use the 'Low' output for my feedback loop, whereas many people use the 'High' output, or the headphone jack... I don't care enough to pursue and rationalise this difference.

The only minus so far: I had to hunt down a sys-ex utility to set the Model D's response characteristics, because I couldn't get it to work with the suggested sys-ex string when I created it in Cubase. With the utility, and using USB instead of the MIDI port, I successfully set the pitch bend range to my preferred 2 semis. If that's the worst trouble I'm going to get for my 300 quid I'll take it.

Stunning.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Jumpeyspyder » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:04 pm

Sounds great - thanks for the low down!

How are the contols? is it a bit cramped or OK?
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:23 am

The controls are fine. Something about their size does reduce the visceral satisfaction of tweaking, for me at least, but they are not so small that setting them carefully is a problem. I wouldn't describe them as 'cramped', and I haven't found myself accidentally moving other controls to the sides, like I have with the tiny Rolands or Korgs.

If you know your way around a Mini then it's all pretty much second nature, though the totally new controls will take a few second glances until they become familiar. The 'black switches on a black background' in the controller area are a strange choice -- maybe they thought that yellow, lime or violet would look too toy-ish? If anyone can tell me where I can buy some replacement switch tops I'd be pleased to know -- that's a mod that's high on my list.

I've seen suggestions to nut the pots onto the panel, and this is something that I'd seriously consider -- just to give the thing an improved chance of longevity.

I'm scratching my head to consider why anyone *wouldn't* want one of these, other than if they have some kind of deep Moog revulsion. Of course, I'll always carp about an external PSU, but I can forgive it this for the price -- something I find utterly *unforgivable* on a three grand plus remake...
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby SecretSam » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:56 am

... and here comes my GAS again. Thanks Elf.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:12 pm

If the Model D can please you Elf, it must be AMAZING!! :beamup: :thumbup:


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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:15 pm

The Elf wrote:The 'black switches on a black background' in the controller area are a strange choice - maybe they thought that yellow, lime or violet would look too toy-ish? If anyone can tell me where I can buy some replacement switch tops I'd be pleased to know - that's a mod that's high on my list.

Image

Are you sure they have switch tops Elf? They look to me (from photos anyway) like rocker switches, in which case the switch top is probably an integral part of the switch and would therefore need the switches themselves un-soldering from the circuit board and replacing with differently coloured alternatives.


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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:21 pm

As I understand it the switches are actually simple toggles and Behringer have just added a press-on plastic cap to them.

Admittedly this is based on a prototype...
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Martin Walker wrote:If the Model D can please you Elf, it must be AMAZING!! :beamup: :thumbup:
:lol: If it was 500 quid I would begin to be more critical of the external PSU, the diminutive size and the minijacks. For this price, and for how good it sounds (which is the most important criterion), I can overlook any such compromises.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby johnny h » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:19 pm

Exciting times.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Ouch! First nasty bug discovered.

MIDI pitch bend messages only work between a MIDI note on and note off. For most this probably won't matter so much, but it's a right old pain for me.

Behringer are aware of the problem, and I'm hoping that a firmware update will cure it. The only caveat to this is that the Windows firmware updater currently won't function under Windows 10... :headbang: Behringer are also aware of this problem.

Just thought I'd keep folks informed.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Ben Asaro » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:13 pm

Thanks for your insights, this sounds like a great addition to the Mother-32. My most recent need was for poly synths but this may be my next mono purchase!
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Dee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:04 pm

Came on here to check my keyboard stand thread......and looks like I’m gonna be another £300 light - thanks Elf :bouncy:

I’ve just bought a Yamaha Montage 8 too.....the Mrs is gonna need a cup of tea :headbang:
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby envamt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:14 pm

Synapse Audio The Legend is very good and makes me think seriously whether its £300 on another synth or something else that a cpu cant emulate. I would love to know what The Elf thought about The Legend.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:40 pm

Legend is easily the best virtual MiniMoog emulator so far IMO. If I can't use hardware I'd choose Legend every time.

But 300 quid for something that's essentially a 'genuine', hardware Mini? It's maybe not quite down at 'impulse buy' levels, but it's not far off.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby envamt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:41 pm

Thanks The Elf for your thoughts, much appreciated. Forgive me but I have to ask this: as you have a MiniMoog and said about the Model D "I'm scratching my head to consider why anyone *wouldn't* want one of these" and also "Not *like* a MiniMoog. Not *similar* to a MiniMoog. It's a MiniMoog." and also Martin Walker said about you "If the Model D can please you Elf, it must be AMAZING!!" (high praise indeed from another legend) What do you say about the sound of SYNAPSE AUDIO The Legend when comparing it to a MiniMoog? is it a MiniMoog too?
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:52 pm

Legend is a take-out pizza.

Model D is a good steak at your local gastro-pub.

The MiniMoog is breakfast at Tiffany's.

When you're in a hurry to eat you don't book a flight to New York... :D
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:37 am

:clap: :lol:
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby envamt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:37 pm

All said and done The Legend VA sounds awesome. Checkout youtube for a 'The Legend vs Hardware synthesizer' and 'Vintage Minimoog Model D vs. The Legend VST Emulation' shootouts here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIPu2Su-V9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NBJuQVtPwA

Or download the 30 day demo here:

http://www.synapse-audio.com/thelegend.html

Behringer better get a move on if its going to cash in on the present right brained analog revival or it might end up the way of Alesis. CPU's and modelling skills aren't getting any less powerful or VA's less convenient, also If I want a Behringer Model D I have to wait till God knows when to get it. With all there demos on youtube and teasers on Facebook yet none in the shops they might just be annoying a lot of there potential customers into looking at the alternatives which might make buyers realise something they never knew before: VA's are now at least as good if not better than the originals!
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby The Elf » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 pm

envamt wrote:which might make buyers realise something they never knew before: VA's are now at least as good if not better than the originals!
I think you're over-egging this pudding.

I am open to making sounds with anything. I use a lot of virtual instruments, and I use a lot of hardware, old and new. Much as I might choose a VI for its specific abilities, or simply for convenience, I'm not blind to the fact that much hardware has a special quality that VIs still cannot recreate, not least of which is the physical interaction.

And I have no problem with that.

VAs are at their very best when they stop trying to emulate old technology and do what they're good at. VIs do not need to try to equal or better hardware - they simply need to take us on other journeys.

All IMO, of course.
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Re: Behringer Model D

Postby envamt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:37 pm

With respect to developers of VA's and to where I am coming from:
As long as cpu's get more powerful VA emulations will get better. Developers continually target the old familiar Moogs, Prophets and Rolands etc. to prove the point to people like you and me that total emulation is possible and doable. They simply will not rest till they nail them... then they can say "behold what I have done, I've made a better world for every one, nobody laughs nobody cries.. " showing my age there.

The thought of buying four Behringer Model D's to stack up for four note polymoog goodness had more than crossed my mind but after trying out Synapse Audios The Legend VA (which can be set to four note poly mode) I was put in a dilemma. Sure I love my poly stack of five Waldorf Pulses (Dr Who has only two pulses) and MKS-80, JX-10 and Juno-6 trio of Rolands, and yes the mighty Andromeda with its pride of place need not worry nor should the Waldorf Wave or even the Matrix-1000 or DSI-Tetra for performing real analog polyphonic duties, they are all analog after all. But now theres these new virtual kids on the block threatening everything with there sound quality, reliability, affordability and sheer convenience making my analogs feel more like warm expensive security blankets. How I normally perceive analog synthesis is changing now more than ever especially since adding The Legend and uh-e's Diva to the mix, and you know they stand just as tall and proud and are no less and yes, in lots of ways even better! than there semi distinguished company of hardware friends.

Important to say that to use the latest and greatest VA's you'll need a fast modern PC/Mac (they are hungry beasties), low latency quality audio, good speakers and a decent controller keyboard for mapping knobs etc., I use a Virus kb which all adds to the illusion of playing a real synth. Oh, and yes my right brain is still nagging me "go get yer self a few of these nice warm analog knobie Behringer thingies to cuddle in to".
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