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MIDI 2.0!?

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby desmond » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:58 pm

No they needed to be 8ndependant, you’re not always connecting the same devices bidirectionally. Or else you’d need breakout cables, but it would be a confusing mess...
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby The Elf » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:16 pm

desmond wrote:No they needed to be 8ndependant, you’re not always connecting the same devices bidirectionally. Or else you’d need breakout cables, but it would be a confusing mess...
A receiving instrument that didn't want to receive would just ignore the incoming stream. Works for USB!
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Dave B » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:30 pm

Dave Smith always pushed for midi to be a 'star' topology, but the Roland bods kept pushing back that they wanted the 'thru'. They got their way which is why we have all these din cables everywhere.

One of the interesting thins about midi over usb is that it finally brings the concept back to Dave's original idea - a star topology.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Folderol » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:19 pm

When the MIDI spec. was set there was no such thing as USB. Also the instrument manufacturers were thinking in terms of controllers direct to synths without any form of hub - for which separate connectors make sense. Computers were expensive, unreliable and barely entered into their thoughts. Dave Smith was significantly ahead of his time in that respect.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby The Elf » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:55 pm

They didn't need to time travel to see the benefit of a bi-directional cable. MIDI was based on RS232, which was itself bi-directional. The pins were sitting there waiting to be used. It could have solved us all this two-cable mess we ended up in - and the difference between 'in' and 'out' seems to baffle many people - myself included on occasions! :lol:

Atari used the spare pins as a MIDI Thru on the Atari ST, which caused a lot of trouble, since by then many cables had the spare pins shorted to avoid confusion over which pins were the correct ones! The number of times I saw that one...

All water under the bridge and out to sea, though. Let's hope the backwards compatibility works as seamlessly as it always does... ;) :beamup:
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby N i g e l » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:45 pm

Yamaha had their PS/2 port style, 1 cable MIDI. Did that have much impact on equipment or was it just Yamaha ?
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby DGL. » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:59 pm

N i g e l wrote:Yamaha had their PS/2 port style, 1 cable MIDI. Did that have much impact on equipment or was it just Yamaha ?
Wasn't that a serial (either RS-232 (PC) or RS-422 for MAC) 'host' connector, 8 pins, quite a few manufacturers used that connection. My Korg 05R/W has this connector.
The only use of PS/2 connectors I know of for MIDI was the front panel sockets on the Creative Audigy PCI cards.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby N i g e l » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:54 pm

All the Reface's have a PS/2 connector for MIDI. They do come supplied with an in/out breakout cable.
Thats the only thing ive got that's single cable.

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby DGL. » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:22 am

N i g e l wrote:All the Reface's have a PS/2 connector for MIDI. They do come supplied with an in/out breakout cable.
Thats the only thing ive got that's single cable.

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Forgot about the Reface series (despite having their PSS cousin), though the way they work is different to what creative had in teh fact that creative didn't combine the two in/out connectors in to one PS/2 style using one for each, I guess, using the same pinout as an AT-PS/2 keyboard adaptor.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby N i g e l » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:04 pm

The Elf wrote:They didn't need to time travel to see the benefit of a bi-directional cable. MIDI was based on RS232, which was itself bi-directional. The pins were sitting there waiting to be used. It could have solved us all this two-cable mess we ended up in - and the difference between 'in' and 'out' seems to baffle many people - myself included on occasions!

I think having seperate cables allows for a chain configuration, perfectly acceptable in the 80's, although because the electronics are asymmetric (on THRU), there is a limit of 3 or 4 synth modules from a master keyboard before the data gets slewed and erronious
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby desmond » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:12 pm

Yay for MIDI 2.0!

Now we'll be back to the days with endless articles on MIDI, with message formats, and type-in listings for your very own personal computer to experiment with the new-fangled MIDI byte things... :thumbup: :clap:
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Agharta » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:35 pm

desmond wrote:Yay for MIDI 2.0!
Now we'll be back to the days with endless articles on MIDI, with message formats, and type-in listings for your very own personal computer to experiment with the new-fangled MIDI byte things... :thumbup: :clap:
Maybe we'll see a new Atari in time for MIDI 2.0! :D
I wrote a basic app for my Atari ST that created Philip Glass like riffs.
All very basic and probably written in BASIC! :thumbup:
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby BigRedX » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:45 am

The PS2 style port for MIDI seems to be a Yamaha thing. The Tenori-On has it too. Nothing special about the connector, just a compact way of getting enough pins for MIDI in and out in a pre-existing form-factor.

Personally I think MIDI should go back to using XLR connectors as originally intended. All these nasty non-locking computer style connectors are simply not robust enough for gigging use.
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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby ef37a » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:32 pm

BigRedX wrote:The PS2 style port for MIDI seems to be a Yamaha thing. The Tenori-On has it too. Nothing special about the connector, just a compact way of getting enough pins for MIDI in and out in a pre-existing form-factor.

Personally I think MIDI should go back to using XLR connectors as originally intended. All these nasty non-locking computer style connectors are simply not robust enough for gigging use.

PS2 is knocking on! XLR seems overkill and DIN is being dropped like a hot brick, mainly due to size and cost I would imagine? I do however agree that it is a superb connector.

My vote stays with RJ45. They are cheap enough that you can keep 1/2 doz spares. The latch is vulnerable but you can get special boots that protect it and stop it snagging and surely someone can come up with a snap on 2 piece ABS cover that has a button to push the latch?

I think the very LAST thing we need is yet another bloody connector!

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Re: MIDI 2.0!?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:01 pm

It will need to be cheap, and not easily confused with anything else to avoid damage. So while the RJ45 makes the first requirement, it fails the second.

Perhaps RJ11s (telephone type) connectors would be a safer option? ;-)

I love the idea of XLRs for MIDI on gigging equipment, but that fails on both counts and it's bulky, so perhaps mini-XLRs would be okay, although the expense probably rules them out too.

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