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I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

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I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Guido3 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:24 pm

Is it just me..........?

I'm in the market for a s/h Nord Electro (see my ad :thumbup: ). I don't particularly need the latest and greatest (Electro 6D) but can see myself going that way purely because of the prices of s/h gear in general. I can get a brand new Electro 6D for £1295 yet the prices of Electro 4D and 5D don't seem to drop below £1000!! Some people are asking for more than a new 6D!!

I don't get it!! I have sold a bucket load of gear of the years. When I decide to sell something, I obviously want to get a reasonable price for it but at the same time I need to move it on so I can get on with buying my next purchase.

Don't get me wrong, people can sell their gear for whatever they like and if they are in no hurry to sell then by all means bang a higher price on it but it's bloody frustrating for buyers!!!

On a positive note, I did snaffle a lovely Nord Piano for £500 from Take That/ELO's keyboard player. It's even got the TT sounds still in it!! Just need to find a TT tribute act and I'll be as authentic as they come!!!!

I was a lot happier than this before I hit 48 :beamup:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Guido3 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:37 pm

Just think how bad I'm going to be when I hit 50...............
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby BJG145 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:17 am

I know what you mean, I was looking for a secondhand item of studio equipment recently and the only one up for sale was more than a new one. I submitted a very low offer just to make the point. :tongue:

Nords tend to be one of those things that just hold their value well though.

There's a mint Electro 4D which just came up on Gumtree for £899; seems to be the cheapest one around at the moment.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/electric-keyb ... 1331943856
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Humble Bee » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:45 am

I’ve been looking at getting an Electro 4D for a good year now and here on the continent they tend to go for just under €1k. The cheapest one I’ve seen went for €750. As said Nords tend to hold their value very well. Great keyboard!
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Dave B » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:01 pm

I feel your pain, but .... I think I've worked out what's going on generally here.

I also fancied getting into the Nord ecosphere and an Electro 61 of some kind would suit me as a quick n dirty option for when I have next to no space (rehearsal, v. small gigs, etc). So I looked around and I also saw the lunacy you've seen.

BUT ... the s/h market is now slightly skewed and you have to know how to read it. It is the eBay listings which are messing things up. People have worked out that it is better to pay a couple of quid to list stuff so high that it does not sell, just to skew the current prices. With eBay, you now have to look at the 'Sold' section and see what people _actually_ pay for gear, rather than just the current or completed listings. The latter are now nonsense.

The logical impact of this technique is that the prices on the other s/h sites rise and drive prices upwards. This works to a degree, but not long term because, as you've identified, people suddenly realise that they are paying over the odds. But that doesn't stop optimistic people / chancers trying it on.

The reality of the situation is : that very few people sell Nord Electros until the break. They are very good bits of kit and people hang on because they do what they do really well. So why sell it?

The odd ones do come up for sale, but they are still selling quite high. I nearly broke down and ordered a new one from Andertons but I don't _need_ it at the moment so I held off.

It's all so depressing - eBay was a good idea that, over time, has twisted into something thoroughly rotten. It serves some small purpose for small traders, but not really for anyone selling : I've heard too many horror stories recently. If I were to sell synths, it would be here or Facebook market. I may advertise some guitars there, but strictly collection-only (and boy does that get people upset and shouting at you) and, ideally, cash on collection. It really is the pits.. but it is also the main player...
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 pm

For years the only way to reasonably assess prices of used gear has been ebay's completed listings pages. Many people go on kite flying expeditions on sites like ebay, FB, Gumtree and even, occasionally, on our own SoS classifieds (though it is definitely less common there). But ebay are making it more difficult to check as not all completed listings show the actual sale price. All this serves to push used prices up. Add the silly prices being asked for 'vintage' kit (as old as 19 f*&%ing 90 these days.....) and people think their 1970 Encore 'Strat' is worth £200... it was £60 new and is worth £30 now 'cos it was crap then and is just as crap now :headbang:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Guido3 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:38 pm

I’m glad it’s not just me then!!

I’m going to have a ring round the usual music retailers tomorrow. If anyone can do me a 6D for under £1200 that’s they way I’m heading. At the end of the day, if I don’t like it, i’ll stick it on eBay for £1500 :headbang:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Mouldy old dough » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:39 am

You are most definitely not getting grumpy in your old age Guido, The second hand prices people are asking are just ridiculous. An Arp Quadra for £12 k? Id want Tony Banks to come and demo it for that sort of money! Interestingly the same instrument dropped to around £8K when the vendor must have realised Richard Lawson had one for sale at that money. With regards to the Nord Electro, I I would take the 0% finance and have the back up and warranty from the dealer for the difference in price for a second hand one. I sold an electro 3 73 a couple of years ago for £850 at “mates rates” (I’m now in the market again for a 6D, doh!). Great instrument IMHO 2 things I have sold over the years I wish I hadn’t were a Nord Modular 1 keyboard and the Electro. I keep getting tempted by the odd Nord C1 but I am just too grumpy for ebay at 53!
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby CS70 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:12 am

Last month I was looking at eBay for some guitar and yeah found the prices higher than expected. But my $0.1 is that you’re looking at it the other way around.

The fallacy is to think that there’s a “right” price, while the truth is that everything is either unavailable or free if nobody wants it. And if someone wants it, the price depend on the moment in time you’re asking. Sure, prices have some short term stability but in general, value is a function, not a property. Nothing has an inherent monetary value.

So I find a better way to evaluate a purchase, especially online, is not to worry or look how much it’s worth, but rather focus on what I what I want, why I want it, how much I want it and which price I’m prepared to pay for it, right now . Only then I look at shops and listings and, unless the difference is truly large, It simply make polite offers based on my budget. If after a few attempts it’s no joy, it’s evident I don’t want it enough. But very often I’ve scored exceptional pieces of kit for pretty much the budget I wanted.

The only situation where this technique doesn’t work, is when you want to buy something as an investment, with the intention of reselling it and make a profit.. there, you are betting on specific price changes on specific periods of time, so you really need to observe the prices and pray that their development is predictable. But if you want to buy stuff to use.. allocate a budget and make offers. You may be surprised!
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Still Vibrations » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:47 am

Mouldy old dough wrote:An Arp Quadra for £12 k? Id want Tony Banks to come and demo it for that sort of money! Interestingly the same instrument dropped to around £8K when the vendor must have realised Richard Lawson had one for sale at that money.

I had an Arp Quadra which I really liked but they are really unreliable. After thirty or so years I would be surprised if they still work enough to be used.
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:02 pm

CS70 wrote:So I find a better way to evaluate a purchase, especially online, is not to worry or look how much it’s worth, but rather focus on what I what I want, why I want it, how much I want it and which price I’m prepared to pay for it, right now .
I can't remember where I stumbled across this gem, but the thing I always keep in mind when considering significant purchases is, "The true cost of something is what you have to give up to get it."
Which is another way of asking the same questions. :)

I do wonder if we should cross-link this thread with the one about the Beatles book though...
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:42 pm

:clap:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Agharta » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Dave B wrote:BUT ... the s/h market is now slightly skewed and you have to know how to read it. It is the eBay listings which are messing things up. People have worked out that it is better to pay a couple of quid to list stuff so high that it does not sell, just to skew the current prices. With eBay, you now have to look at the 'Sold' section and see what people _actually_ pay for gear, rather than just the current or completed listings. The latter are now nonsense.
You have had to do this for over a decade so I focus mainly on Sold prices so not sure if it's got worse over time.
Although I will look at all old listings if there are very few sold items to get a sense of at what prices items failed to sell at.
What I find irritating is that they don't show the Best Offer prices of Sold items but only the fixed price that was the base for the sale.
You can deduce it by changing the search parameters until your price caps either exclude or include it depending on your sort order.
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby arkieboy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:04 am

EBay: I've always seen this as a consequences of (one of the very few places where it actually applies) the long tail effect. If you have a desirable item, you're willing to pack and ship, and you have a history of shipping working items in good condition then there is a high chance that there is someone who needs that kit quickly; for whom saving £50 over new is worth the risk of no warranty; or has got so fixated on winning the auction that you can do really well. Sometimes. But often enough that the relatively negligible listing price makes it worth the punt.

You play the eBay game by being a bit left of field - maybe there's a less glamorous Yamaha keyboard that has a reputation for being a bit of a pig to programme but you've spotted a good freeware editor; you know that the LCD in that Apple Cinema Display is also in this Dell monitor; this John Mayer Strat from that year was practically built to custom shop standards but doesn't have the custom shop name on it. Or you're simply willing to wait it out for that unfortunate 'third Nord lister on the day' who is unfortunate enough to have you left bidding when Ms. Impatient and and Mr. Irrational have got their fix ...

I love it. But I love the meta too ...
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby Humble Bee » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:53 am

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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby BJG145 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:14 am

...this is the one that irritated me; a secondhand Malletkat Express on Reverb that has gradually dropped from £2200 to £1400. You can buy them new for £1300.

Don't believe those "price drops". :protest:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby blinddrew » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:41 am

That reminds me of a few years ago when I was doing some SEO work, I'd googled my name and noticed that there was an e-bay link coming up.
Sure enough, someone was trying to sell one of my CDs for a fiver, by which point I'd long abandoned the idea of making money from music and was giving them out free. :D
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby BJG145 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:41 pm

blinddrew wrote:Sure enough, someone was trying to sell one of my CDs for a fiver

Wow...that really takes the cake??!! :shock: :shock:
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby ManFromGlass » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:33 pm

blinddrew wrote:...... someone was trying to sell one of my CDs for a fiver, by which point I'd long abandoned the idea of making money from music and was giving them out free. :D

I’ve given away so many Glass Orchestra CDs that I don’t know anybody in my circle of friends, relatives and acquaintances who don’t have them. Now I’m trying the angle of telling people to give them as Xmas presents, but I still have a pile left. I’ve donated some to fundraising charity events over the years. Anything to avoid them going into the landfill by my hand.
also
On Discog.com I found a guy in Sweden trying to sell our original LP for $80 - good luck to him. You should see if your name pops up there.
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Re: I'm getting grumpy in my old age - 2nd hand gear.

Postby blinddrew » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:35 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:On Discog.com I found a guy in Sweden trying to sell our original LP for $80 - good luck to him. You should see if your name pops up there.
Umm that appears to be The Journal Of Cognitive And Linguistic Linguistics (the translation from Korean might not be 100% there).

Discogs.com might be a better bet for anyone else who wants to play along. :D
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