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System 8 or prologue 8/16

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System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby N.Cassidy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:12 pm

I currently have a Minilogue XD which I really like.
However, I also want more polyphony for pads.

I currently like the System 8 and the prologue 8/16.
I realise they are different beasts but like the sound of both.

However having watched stuff on YouTube about ACB (hope that’s right) technology maybe being gradually dropped in favour of Zen core by Roland, is the System 8 still a wise buy ?Have played it and like the sound but will the value plummet?

Have not played the Prologue but guess it is similar in character to the Minilogue?
Given that the technology is the same as the Minilogue I am quite surprised at the lack of rave reviews on the Prologue.

Would be selling the Minilogue and looking at the 2nd Hand market.

Any thoughts?
(New to the forum so apologies if this is old ground)
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:52 pm

N.Cassidy wrote:However having watched stuff on YouTube about ACB (hope that’s right) technology maybe being gradually dropped in favour of Zen core by Roland, is the System 8 still a wise buy?

"Zen Core" is just the same old Rompler Fantom/Supernatural sound engine, with some extra oscillator stuff. It's a completely separate product and technology from ACB, and developed by different groups. The rompler stuff powers their high-polyphony workstation systems, with the ACB being for the low polyphony/high DSP analog modelling stuff.

We haven't seen new ACB stuff for a while (even the Cloud plugin development seems to be in a lull at the moment, in terms of releases) so who knows what Roland's plans are for the future? I don't think it's going away just yet, as the various offshoots of ACB (the Boutique stuff, the System stuff, and the Roland Cloud stuff) seem to have been pretty successful for Roland, so far...
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby N.Cassidy » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:27 pm

Thanks for the quick response.
One of the videos I watched was suggesting that the plug-outs on the new Jupiter Xm were using rompler tech instead of ACB. It went on to suggest that as this was less processor intensive that it was likely that Roland would use this approach for future plug-outs/vintage synth recreations and that this might lead to less updates/development etc on the existing ACB machines like the System 8

Any thoughts on sound/flexibility of the Roland and Korg as a purchase for pads? Is the Roland as warm as the Prologue? I have only heard the Roland over average headphones but liked the patches. However, I can spend a good 5 mins on ‘Replicant Xd` Every time I turn on the Minilogue!
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby desmond » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:35 pm

N.Cassidy wrote:One of the videos I watched was suggesting that the plug-outs on the new Jupiter Xm were using rompler tech instead of ACB.

Yes, these machines are Zen Core, not ACB. They are based on, as I said above, the existing XV/Fantom + Supernatural engines, they just have some additional stuff to get characters a bit like other past machines - oscillator types, filter types etc. They are not full emulations, they just include flavours of parts of the machines they mention.

N.Cassidy wrote:It went on to suggest that as this was less processor intensive that it was likely that Roland would use this approach for future plug-outs/vintage synth recreations and that this might lead to less updates/development etc on the existing ACB machines like the System 8

Sure. And I can suggest otherwise. Given that no-one except Roland actually knows what they are doing, it's just speculation whichever way you go. ;)

Roland *may* decide to do no more ACB synths, or they may continue to refine the technology, and continue to mine their past until *all* their old loved machines are emulated (which seemed to be the route they were going, but as I said, has slowed down of late, at least in terms of what's been released.)

N.Cassidy wrote:Any thoughts on sound/flexibility of the Roland and Korg as a purchase for pads? Is the Roland as warm as the Prologue? I have only heard the Roland over average headphones but liked the patches. However, I can spend a good 5 mins on ‘Replicant Xd` Every time I turn on the Minilogue!

For me, with these instruments, it's more about playing on the ones you are interested in and seeing which one speaks to you most. Given my tastes may be completely different, it's hard to make a recommendation that's going to be worth much to you.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby The Elf » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:45 pm

The S8 sounds fabulous, is very flexible, and definitely has enough of a Jupiter 8-ish tone that I sold my real JP8.

The plastic-toy build quality, short keyboard and lack of aftertouch are annoying. The external PSU I had mounted into the case, so at least that's a non-issue from my perspective. Given that Roland described the S8 as their 'flagship' I think they need to re-think such features, and it seems they may have done that with the forthcoming Jupiter X.

Nothing wrong with the Korg, but it really doesn't have that big, swirly goodness of the S8, IMHO.

I have zero interest in the Jupiter XM, but I'll be taking a good look at the Jupiter X when it arrives. I'm not a purist, and the better chassis and 5-octave keyboard fit with my idea of a workhorse polysynth, so bring it on.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby Dave B » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:51 pm

Whilst I don't disagree with the Elf, I would say that comparing the System8 and the Prologue is definitely a case of apples/oranges. They are very different sonic palettes. I'd definitely recommend playing the S8 before you decide - you have much of the flavour of the Prologue in the Minilogue, so see if you like that Roland sound before you do anything else.

In terms of longer term ... I'd be tempted to get the System 8 as is and not rely on anything that might be promised in future or need to be connected to a computer to work. If Roland DO retire it, then you won't be able to change it so as long as you treat it as the thing you originally bought, it should be ok.

In terms of the Prologue, go for the 16 voice! The last thing you want with that kind of polysynth is to run out of polyphony and when I played the 8, I could hear not stealing which was a bit heartbreaking. I'd pay the extra and also get some more keys as well :)
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby desmond » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:02 pm

Roland's comments here are interesting, in relation to modelling, ACB and Zen-Core:
https://cdm.link/2019/11/roland-analog- ... statement/

More:
https://www.roland.com/us/promos/jupite ... 0w-qd5TGN0
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby N.Cassidy » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:10 am

Thank you all for your replies and especially Desmond for finding the article - indeed, interesting reading. I am keen on lush pads and will go and try the System 8 again after watching the walk through from Daniel Fisher on YouTube.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby The Elf » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:36 am

N.Cassidy wrote:Thank you all for your replies and especially Desmond for finding the article - indeed, interesting reading. I am keen on lush pads and will go and try the System 8 again after watching the walk through from Daniel Fisher on YouTube.
System 8 will definitely get you those!

Be aware that the sawtooth (I haven't made a study of the other waveforms) in the System 8's own model is identical to that in the JP8 model - which gives you a great start for pads without having to lose functions due to choosing the JP8 model.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby BillB » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:26 pm

Based on those articles, System 8 may represent Roland's greatest effort at modelling its poly classics for some time to come. Who knows, it may appreciate, rather than depreciate when no longer on sale - the boutiques have, at the very least, held their price, although the new JU06a throws the cat amongst those pigeons. Lack of polyphony on the System 8 may be an issue to some, or the O/P, but it didn't stop the originals becoming revered classics.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby The Elf » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:27 pm

BillB wrote:Lack of polyphony on the System 8 may be an issue to some
The System 8 is 8 voice, It's the boutique range that seem to think we will be happy with 4 voice.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby BillB » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:57 pm

The Elf wrote:The System 8 is 8 voice, It's the boutique range that seem to think we will be happy with 4 voice.
I get that Elf, System 8 is the same as the Jupiter 8 and 1.33% better than a Juno #6#. Just saying that some might have wanted more - this appears to be Roland's own take on what punters require.

But it seems that the DSP is expensive and what's more, it only seems to work in groups of four notes! Four notes! That really was one of the silliest decisions ever.

Even in the technologically-challenged days of 1978, Dave Smith knew he had to go one better than that - and Roland went one better a couple of years later. Wow - welcome to 2019.
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby resistorman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:52 am

You can chain the XD and it’s new keyless module for more polyphony, you know...
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Re: System 8 or prologue 8/16

Postby N.Cassidy » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:38 pm

Have taken the plunge on a System 8.
Many thanks for helpful posts
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