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Reaching the Summit

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Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:13 am
by Arpangel
Oh dear, this pandemic is having deep effects, a friend and long time musical collaborator who never buys anything sent me a picture this morning of a Summit in his studio, that’s it, I’ve got to get one now, I’ve got no choice. He's even sold his original Juno.

:shocked:

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:48 pm
by nathanscribe
I sold a Juno-60 I'd had since 1995 to buy a Peak and some other gubbins. No regrets.

Well. Not many. It wasn't my only Juno. Took a while to decide though. The Peak engine is very capable, so it's a good choice.

I had a dabble with a Summit in a shop a while back and the only thing that struck me as a negative was the placement of the screen at the end, rather than in the middle. On the Peak, everything is nicely arranged and compact, and it's very easy to see where you are with everything. The Summit, with the brief time I had on it, seemed a touch more awkward to get around, but that's presumably something you get used to. I'd be interested to hear what Summit users think about the difference.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:13 pm
by Eddy Deegan
nathanscribe wrote:I had a dabble with a Summit in a shop a while back and the only thing that struck me as a negative was the placement of the screen at the end, rather than in the middle. On the Peak, everything is nicely arranged and compact, and it's very easy to see where you are with everything. The Summit, with the brief time I had on it, seemed a touch more awkward to get around, but that's presumably something you get used to. I'd be interested to hear what Summit users think about the difference.

I have a Summit but never owned a Peak. In my case I can't say that the screen placement has bothered me any.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:16 am
by Arpangel
I was thinking of getting one too, but I’ve changed my mind, it’s great, no problem with that, but I’m looking for something a bit more versatile.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:03 pm
by The Elf
Arpangel wrote:I was thinking of getting one too, but I’ve changed my mind, it’s great, no problem with that, but I’m looking for something a bit more versatile.
More versatile in what respect?

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:50 pm
by Arpangel
The Elf wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I was thinking of getting one too, but I’ve changed my mind, it’s great, no problem with that, but I’m looking for something a bit more versatile.
More versatile in what respect?

A good Rhodes sound...

:D

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 pm
by BillB
The Elf wrote:More versatile in what respect?

Modulation of stereo pan position? Still surprised Novation didn’t include that.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:48 am
by The Elf
BillB wrote:
The Elf wrote:More versatile in what respect?
Modulation of stereo pan position? Still surprised Novation didn’t include that.
That is soooooo far down the list of anything I'd ever feel I needed! :lol:

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:31 am
by BillB
The Elf wrote:
BillB wrote:
The Elf wrote:More versatile in what respect?
Modulation of stereo pan position? Still surprised Novation didn’t include that.
That is soooooo far down the list of anything I'd ever feel I needed! :lol:

That may be because you are a professional musician producing actual music and playing live. Whereas I am an amateur synth nerd, brought up on Tomita, who feels that stereo movement is an important part of what a synth can/should do. Tomita used panning as a major part of his sound creation and sonic story telling, for example, Ballet of the Chicks in their Shells:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=er5pVjWSAuY

Not saying that every bit of music should be as crazy as that (God forbid). But listen to literally any of his music and the use of stereo is critical to his production approach to create interest and atmosphere.

Some of that can/must be done in the mix, but I tend to feel that a comprehensive synth should at least allow the possibility of stereo placement and, ideally, modulation which is related to key strokes (e.g by envelope) or cyclic (LFO). Absence of panning is my one disappointment with my JD-800.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:56 am
by Arpangel
BillB wrote:
The Elf wrote:
BillB wrote:
The Elf wrote:More versatile in what respect?
Modulation of stereo pan position? Still surprised Novation didn’t include that.
That is soooooo far down the list of anything I'd ever feel I needed! :lol:

That may be because you are a professional musician producing actual music and playing live. Whereas I am an amateur synth nerd, brought up on Tomita, who feels that stereo movement is an important part of what a synth can/should do. Tomita used panning as a major part of his sound creation and sonic story telling, for example, Ballet of the Chicks in their Shells:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=er5pVjWSAuY

Not saying that every bit of music should be as crazy as that (God forbid). But listen to literally any of his music and the use of stereo is critical to his production approach to create interest and atmosphere.

Some of that can/must be done in the mix, but I tend to feel that a comprehensive synth should at least allow the possibility of stereo placement and, ideally, modulation which is related to key strokes (e.g by envelope) or cyclic (LFO). Absence of panning is my one disappointment with my JD-800.

Random modulation of pan position was a technique our keyboard player used to use with amazing results, and that was using an old Yamaha SY77.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:00 am
by The Elf
I use a lot of wide panning to create my mixes, but panning individual voices of a single patch is just not something I'd consider. I'd just create the lines in mono and pan them as needed.

Happy to hear examples, though! :thumbup:

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:07 am
by BillB
Interesting. I have just looked through a few Novation Manuals (SuperNova, KS Rack, XioSynth) and panning is generally allowed as a sort of syncable autopan ‘effect’, listed in the same FX section as Chorus, Delay etc.

The only example I have found of a Novation Synth allowing pan as a Mod Matrix destination is the UltraNova (and perhaps MiniNova, haven’t checked). Modulated panning has not really been part of their synth architecture historically, so perhaps no surprise that it is not in Peak/Summit.

Whereas recent DSI synths probably all have it (haven’t checked, apart from Pro8, but I’m guessing it’s there).

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:24 am
by BillB
Arpangel wrote:Random modulation of pan position was a technique our keyboard player used to use with amazing results, and that was using an old Yamaha SY77.

Ha, the SY77 is completely bonkers on panning, in a good way. From the manual:

Remarks: Each Dynamic Pan memory contains the following data.
- a Pan Source which allows the panning movement to be controlled by velocity, note number, or LFO
- EG settings which determine panning movement over time
- a Pan Name
64 preset dynamic pan memories are provided, as explained in the following table. In addition, 32 internal memories are provided for you to store your own pan data, and a RAM card can accommodate 32 more pan data memories.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:00 am
by Arpangel
BillB wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Random modulation of pan position was a technique our keyboard player used to use with amazing results, and that was using an old Yamaha SY77.

Ha, the SY77 is completely bonkers on panning, in a good way. From the manual:

Remarks: Each Dynamic Pan memory contains the following data.
- a Pan Source which allows the panning movement to be controlled by velocity, note number, or LFO
- EG settings which determine panning movement over time
- a Pan Name
64 preset dynamic pan memories are provided, as explained in the following table. In addition, 32 internal memories are provided for you to store your own pan data, and a RAM card can accommodate 32 more pan data memories.

The SY77 is the most beautiful keyboard ever made, in the right hands the sounds you can get from that are from another planet.
My friend used to constantly amaze me, he spent a lot of time learning it, imagine the expressivity of an acoustic instrument, the articulation of the human voice, and the power of synthetic sound, all rolled into one.
We think we have some pretty cool synths being made today, and it’s easy to focus on classics like the CS80, but honestly, the SY77 and it’s stable mates are often ignored, and they are truly landmark creations.

Re: Reaching the Summit

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:01 am
by Enjoy Malc
BillB wrote:Interesting. I have just looked through a few Novation Manuals (SuperNova, KS Rack, XioSynth) and panning is generally allowed as a sort of syncable autopan ‘effect’, listed in the same FX section as Chorus, Delay etc.

That’s a shame if it's limited. In the Summit manual, there’s not even mention of general oscillator panning, ie is it possible to pan osc 1, 2 and 3 separately? Surely the two synths within the Summit are pan-able?

I only see a parameter for unison voice spread. Does this also apply to voices in ordinary polyphonic modes? Like the DSi pan spread?