(The above image posted with Behringer's statement.)

My overall takeaway from the statement is basically Uli saying:

"Other sh*tty companies rip off established brands' successful products, so I don't see what the problem is with us doing it..."

Regarding this Keystep malarkey, I’d buy the Arturia, simply because it’s not considerably dearer, and more importantly, that small, extra few quid, brings me great customer support, if any is needed, I’m not confident about getting that with large corporate companies like Behringer.
I’ve had great one-to-one support from Arturia in the past.

Anyone else wondering if one of the special features accessed by connecting the Swing to the Behringer DAW is that it turns into a photocopier? :think:

The statement makes total sense to me, and as a consumer I can see the real b̶e̶n̶e̶f̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶U̶l̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶n̶k̶ ̶a̶c̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶e̶t̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶r̶u̶s̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶e̶c̶o̶n̶o̶m̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶l̶e̶ value to customers. In fact I think now is as good a time as any to announce that, having spent many m̶i̶n̶u̶t̶e̶s̶ months c̶o̶p̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ developing my new synth, I'll shortly be joining the hardware market. What do you all think of my first design?

Arpangel wrote:Regarding this Keystep malarkey, I’d buy the Arturia, simply because it’s not considerably dearer, and more importantly, that small, extra few quid, brings me great customer support, if any is needed, I’m not confident about getting that with large corporate companies like Behringer.
I’ve had great one-to-one support from Arturia in the past.

And that's just one reason why cargo-cult copying frequently doesn't result in market success. Look at how companies like Microsoft, Facebook, Google etc, who were once innovative, have tried to copy others like Tik-Tok, Instagram (before being bought), or even each other (Google+ anyone?), but have failed to understand what the actual USP for the product is.

FWIW I'm not defending Behringer, I don't know why they take the design decisions they do, especially if this Swing has a bunch of stuff under the bonnet that will integrate with their new DAW, you'd assume they'd want it to stand out...
I guess they'd argue that if people don't want their designs copied they should register the design rights - but like most of us here, I don't think they should have to. But hey ho, I'm sitting in a shed in my back garden and I'm sure Uli's very concerned about my thoughts (from his palace in LA or wherever he's based now). ;)

It's sad to see so much 'what can you do...' about this subject.

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little." Edmund Burke

I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

blinddrew wrote:I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

Agreed.

I have one piece of B gear on order. On the one hand I don't feel like handing money over right now, but then there's the consideration of the (UK) store I'm buying it from *and* a second 'one-man-band' business who is supplying part of this purchase. At the moment I'm thinking I'll see it through, but that's me finished until those bridges are repaired to my satisfaction. This whole incident has very much taken the shine off it for me.

I don't think B will go under on the strength of my brand boycott, but neither will they profit from my custom. I'm OK with that.

I've just bought a Keystep 37 and I love it already (I wonder how long it will be etc.etc.). Somehow I seem to be able to be more creative, just playing the keys as opposed to on a full-sized keyboard.

Mini keys is the secret weapon of the pros that they aren't telling you about! ;)

desmond wrote:

(The above image posted with Behringer's statement.)

My overall takeaway from the statement is basically Uli saying:

"Other sh*tty companies rip off established brands' successful products, so I don't see what the problem is with us doing it..."

Loads of people rip of others by all sorts of means, but just because loads of others do it doesn’t mean it’s OK. But, in the grand scheme of things, mixers, a MIDI keyboard, it’s hardly like being the next Anti-Christ.

:-|

Such as shame that they are returning to these tactics, when in some areas they are really developing and have the ability to develop outstanding products. I mean the X32 has changed the lower end of the live sound market and is an amazing product.

I'm coming to the conclusion that B didn't really change direction at all. Perhaps the X32 (and its derivatives) simply came with the acquisition of MIDAS... More or less everything since has been copies of vintage synths rather than genuinely original and innovative products.

blinddrew wrote: I'm not going to criticise them, especially not with two Behringer controllers on the desk in front of me.

I only have 1 but I want more. Sadly the're out of production.

But wait ! whats this ...




https://www.facebook.com/behringer/phot ... 7253648914

The Elf wrote:

blinddrew wrote:I'm not suggesting it's a 'what can you do' situation, I'm suggesting it's a 'what do you want to do?' one.
This is only an issue to those who see it as such. Hence it's a personal decision based on one's moral compass.

Agreed.

I have one piece of B gear on order. On the one hand I don't feel like handing money over right now, but then there's the consideration of the (UK) store I'm buying it from *and* a second 'one-man-band' business who is supplying part of this purchase. At the moment I'm thinking I'll see it through, but that's me finished until those bridges are repaired to my satisfaction. This whole incident has very much taken the shine off it for me.

I don't think B will go under on the strength of my brand boycott, but neither will they profit from my custom. I'm OK with that.

Totally understandable and if anyone has an outstanding order I see no compelling reason to cancel it unless they were sort-of-thinking about something else ...

... which I was :-)

I'll be pinging my contact tomorrow morning and asking him to take the deposit I put down on the 2600 clone, cancel the clone order, offset it from the price of an UDO Super 6 and invoice me for the difference. He'll be happy... it's just revenue to him and with this specific transaction it just jumped well North of triple.

I'll also explain to him why - he'll get it. After that ridiculous "justification" post from them, as of this point, I'm not buying anything from Behringer for the forseeable future. They won't care or notice, but I can't support a stance that basically says "we will because we can".

Their defensive mealy-mouthed statement doesn't address any of the the morality and decency issues and as a software developer by way of a day job I am mindful of the mantra "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". In short, they have no sense of proper decency as I see it, regardless of legalities and I'm simply not going to play that game.

As always, this post is my opinion only and I don't speak for anyone else much as I hope they would agree with me on this issue.

I respect anyone that votes with their wallets based on their personal ethics.
I wish it was easier to so in general as if I did I would need to get rid of equipment that I own based on the dubious practices of:
Google
Apple
Intel
Microsoft

I suppose I could always run Linux on AMD!

I suppose we have to start somewhere as it's very challenging to boycott all of the above.