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Modular prices.

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Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:57 pm
by Eddy Deegan
Random Guitarist wrote:Those stands look very nice. But the cheapskate in me is thinking I could buy the aluminium section and fittings from a cheap chinese website and make a custom rack. That section is ubiquitous and cheap, and available in beefier sizes if needed.

I suspect you could, but to be honest for the amount you'd save and the time it would take I doubt it's worth the hassle for most people. You'd need to be confident in your supplier as well - there are some very dodgy products out there that look the part but fall short on quality.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:16 pm
by Durr GaGa
I have been waiting (and hoping!) for the release of the MOOG Subharmonicon and it is finally here and reviewed this month in SOS by Gordon Reid. However, I am shocked by the difference in price between this module and the Mother 32 and DFAM in the UK.

In the USA, the Subharmonicon is $50.00 more than either of the other modules BUT in the UK, at £739.00, it is somewhere in the region of £160.00 more expensive than either of the other two modules!!

Ignoring the value of the Pound v Dollar for now, does anyone have any idea why there is such a huge disparity?

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:05 am
by Eddy Deegan
Durr GaGa wrote:I have been waiting (and hoping!) for the release of the MOOG Subharmonicon and it is finally here and reviewed this month in SOS by Gordon Reid. However, I am shocked by the difference in price between this module and the Mother 32 and DFAM in the UK.

In the USA, the Subharmonicon is $50.00 more than either of the other modules BUT in the UK, at £739.00, it is somewhere in the region of £160.00 more expensive than either of the other two modules!!

Ignoring the value of the Pound v Dollar for now, does anyone have any idea why there is such a huge disparity?

I don't have a definitive answer but there are certainly variables to consider. Moog operate from the US so their domestic market doesn't have the overheads associated with international shipping (possibly you could add "in a pandemic" to that).

Then there's the 20% VAT on top in the UK as well, whereas in the US there is a lower level sales tax which varies by state and in some cases even city.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 6:24 am
by Arpangel
Eddy Deegan wrote:
BillB wrote:
zenguitar wrote:That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 27&t=72148 :)

Good grief, been looking for something like this for ages.

:thumbup:

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 8:43 am
by BillB
Eddy Deegan wrote:
BillB wrote:
zenguitar wrote:That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 27&t=72148 :)

Very nice, Eddy, well done. Good to see the KK front and centre :thumbup:

Browsing the Obelisqe website throws up a host of possibilities (and obviously more in design and production). For example this piggyback for an X keyboard stand.

Image

Note the rack attachment on the front... could be a good place to have a hands-on 1u effects unit.

Interesting stuff :D

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:59 am
by Durr GaGa
Eddy Deegan wrote:
I don't have a definitive answer but there are certainly variables to consider. Moog operate from the US so their domestic market doesn't have the overheads associated with international shipping (possibly you could add "in a pandemic" to that).

Then there's the 20% VAT on top in the UK as well, whereas in the US there is a lower level sales tax which varies by state and in some cases even city.

Thank you Eddy,

You are, of course quite right about the different markets but my 'concern' is more to do with the disparity in prices between Moog products already affected by the issues that you have suggested. For example:-

US

(Prices here are more consistent so I have used just one retailer)

Sweetwater :- Mother 32 $649.00 DFAM $649.00 SubH $699.00

Extra cost of SubH in US = $50.00

UK

(as UK prices vary so much unlike the US, I have used three retailers at random)

Andertons:- Mother 32 £599.00 DFAM £570.00 SubH £739.00
GAK: Mother 32 £578.00 DFAM £599.00 SubH £739.00
Rubadub: Mother 32 £595.00 DFAM £609.00 SubH £739.00

Averaging the price of the Mother 32 and DFAM in UK =£581.00

BUT the extra cost of the SubH in the UK = £159.00 !!!

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 2:16 am
by Ben Asaro
Ramirez wrote:[ when you look at building complete voices from modules it gets silly.
If you go paraphonic, you can build a 4-voice modular for a (relatively) decent price. But if you are looking to go full polyphonic with two EGs on and a filter on every voice, yeah, it can get crazy expensive. I have far more VCOs than I have filters.

When you consider the cost of separate VCO, VCF, VCA. step-sequencer and LFO modules, for instance, then something like the Mother 32 looks like great value if your head’s in Eurorack-space, even if you don’t add other modules.
The Mother-32's LFO is useful in the context of musical modulation, but it's definitely not as good as a dedicated LFO module. For example, I have a Modbox, which as 4 LFO outputs. Add in two inexpensive Doepfer amplifiers, and you have TON of modulation options for not a lot of money.

It’s a weird Schrödinger’s cat type paradox where something is simultaneously great value and overpriced.
Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 6:21 pm
by Ramirez
Ben Asaro wrote:Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:08 am
by Eddy Deegan
Ramirez wrote:
Ben Asaro wrote:Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

Is it though? Are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth, or are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth that sounds like a Mother-32?

If the former, there are options. Less so if the latter. Nobody is forcing anyone to go either way; it's a fair market offering. As I mentioned in the Subharmonicon thread, that device is a little on the high side for me to get as a 'luxury' item, but now that I've got the modular rebuilt and working again I can see myself coming back to it at a future point and buying one. Whether I do or not I don't know yet but if I start using the modular in earnest in ways that I think and hope I will then at that point it will become worth the investment.

It's all about context.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:17 pm
by Ramirez
Eddy Deegan wrote:
Ramirez wrote:
Ben Asaro wrote:Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

Is it though? Are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth, or are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth that sounds like a Mother-32?

If the former, there are options. Less so if the latter. Nobody is forcing anyone to go either way; it's a fair market offering. As I mentioned in the Subharmonicon thread, that device is a little on the high side for me to get as a 'luxury' item, but now that I've got the modular rebuilt and working again I can see myself coming back to it at a future point and buying one. Whether I do or not I don't know yet but if I start using the modular in earnest in ways that I think and hope I will then at that point it will become worth the investment.

It's all about context.


I do agree with you, I think.
I'm not saying it's hugely expensive as a stand-alone synth - I did buy one after all. Maybe the Behringer stuff is so cheap it makes everything else seem expensive.

But my point is, like you said, that it's all about context. In the Eurorack world, the Mother 32 looks positively cheap! Outside of Eurorack world, it certainly isn't cheap (though perhaps not overpriced either). It's just that the Eurorack/modular world is expensive, though it is, of course, a different journey. And I am dabbling...

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:22 am
by Arpangel
Back to my topic, I keep getting surprised by Eurorack prices, I need a Maths, and a Morphagene, those two modules alone set me back the best part of a grand.
I need some Doepfer utilities, what was once £50 is now £90.
And I don’t want to hear that lame excuse "coronavirus" and that’s obviously going to get wheeled out a lot to justify unwarranted price rises from eggs to synths.
I thought my Buchla modules were expensive, it’s not that I don’t want to spend the money, I just don’t think that it’s worth it, and secondhand is the only way to go.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:07 am
by zenguitar
Where are you buying modules Tony? Postmodular, matttech, and Thonk all have a range of utility modules at good prices. The kits from Thonk can offer a massive saving as well.

Andy :beamup:

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:54 pm
by Arpangel
zenguitar wrote:Where are you buying modules Tony? Postmodular, matttech, and Thonk all have a range of utility modules at good prices. The kits from Thonk can offer a massive saving as well.

Andy :beamup:

Forgot about Post Modular, but aren’t his prices normal retail?
The guys at Thonk are great, but I’m not up to building kits, my eyesight, and dexterity just aren’t good anymore.
I’ve been out of modular for some time, and I’ve forgot a lot of the faces.
My usual haunt for secondhand is mainly Muffwiggler.

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:10 pm
by zenguitar
Yes, retail prices, but they have alternatives to Doepfer utility modules from a number of 3rd parties that could well be cheaper.

Andy :beamup:

Re: Modular prices.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:32 pm
by Arpangel
zenguitar wrote:Yes, retail prices, but they have alternatives to Doepfer utility modules from a number of 3rd parties that could well be cheaper.

Andy :beamup:

Yeah, I’ve been looking at Erica Synths, especially mixers, attenuators, but, I decided against them as the knobs are so small and fiddly, but, they are cheap.
I’ve given in to getting a Maths, I can use it as a mixer, an LFO/VCO, attenuators, EG, and a host of other things, it probably works out cheaper than buying individual modules.