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Novice question - keyboard tuning.

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Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:05 pm
by adrian_k
Full disclosure- I started learning keys a few months ago. Been playing guitar for umm surely not crikey it is 47 years.

My keyboard sounds out of tune to me. Or at least certain intervals. Am I going mad?

For example, if I play G two below mid C with B two above mid C it sounds like a honky tonk piano to me. But if I play C below mid C and E two above mid C it’s seems ok.

I’m playing a Roland V-Combo on the ‘GrandPianoV’ setting. It’s not as noticeable on ‘Grand Piano’.

I realise equal temperament tuning is a compromise - is that what I’m hearing? I’ve never really played a real piano (certainly never one that’ was in tune!) so cant really compare.

:crazy:

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:10 pm
by zenguitar
Is it possible that GrandPianoV is modelling a stretch tuned concert grand piano?

Andy :beamup:

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:59 pm
by RichardT
zenguitar wrote:Is it possible that GrandPianoV is modelling a stretch tuned concert grand piano?

Andy :beamup:

Stretch tuning is very subtle and I don’t think it would make notes sound out of tune. But I could be completely wrong. It’s worth checking out Andy’s suggestion.

Adrian, do other patches beside the pianos on your keyboard sound in or out of tune to you? Do you tune your guitars by ear or using a tuner?

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:48 pm
by wireman
Very stange.

I can buy G to B (up 2 octaves) sounding out of tune as equal temperament has quite an error for the major thrid. If this was the case using C (better) or D (even better) top notes would sound nicer.

But C to E should be the same.

Has the keyboard been set to some strange tuning?

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:12 pm
by adrian_k
Thanks for the suggestions .. having played around a bit more, I don't think I've set it in some strange tuning, I literally got it out of the box a few months ago, pressed the Piano button and have been playing it since. It's always possible, but..

I've now tried various patches and it does seem to be the acoustic pianos, and slightly more apparent on 'Grands'. So e.g. the 'JP8 strings1' patch sounds in tune to me.

Couple of things: if I play an octave G in the left hand and the upper B it doesn't sound so bad, that extra G seems to pull it in a bit. And if I play with less velocity it seems to be better as well.

I also checked that all of the effects knobs are 'off' apart from a bit of reverb. No chorus or pitch shifting going on. I'm also listening on headphones.

Wireman's comment about major thirds does seem right though, if I go through the keys a two octave third sounds a bit off to me, some keys slightly better than others. Fifths not so (but TBH I've been listening so hard I could probably convince myself. I genuinely am thinking this is all in my head).

To answer the question about tuning guitars, combination of by ear and with a tuner. I haven't got perfect pitch but happy to tune without a tuner, it just won't be in concert (unless someone gives me a starting note).

I don't think I'm particularly over-sensitive to tuning, but for example I run a small guitar group and if anyone is out I can tell who they are and which string. (Moment of realisation, I could use a guitar tuner to check the actual note on the piano... :oops: ). I'll plug some speakers in tomorrow and try it.

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:23 pm
by blinddrew
Run a sequence into Reaper and use Reatune?

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:00 am
by adrian_k
blinddrew wrote:Run a sequence into Reaper and use Reatune?
That involves work! Like downloading Reaper, connecting keyboard to daw etc etc.. ;)

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:53 am
by blinddrew
I feel your pain! ;)

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were a Reaper user. Confusing you with someone else obviously! But surely all DAWs have tuners in now? It's just a guitar tuner might not actually have the range to properly test your piano.

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:12 am
by adrian_k
Ah yes I see, ok well I might connect it all up and give it a go. (Cakewalk has a melodyne like think I could use. In fact it come with a trial melodyne as well).

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:25 am
by GilesAnt
Why not post a short sequence of chords that you think is out of tune, and see what people on here think

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 pm
by adrian_k
I feel like the man who mistook his wife for a hat.

So I plugged my guitar tuner in and it thinks that the low G is about right but the high B is 5-10 cents sharp.

I did a factory reset and same thing.

I recorded some notes and looked at the the tuning in my DAW. The low G looks a couple of cents flat. The high B starts off 20 cents sharp but quickly drops to a few cents flat and then evens out. As you expect a string to do I guess.

So as Giles suggests I recorded the exercise I'm practising at the moment:
https://soundcloud.com/user-458189431/keyboard-test/s-FwkoT1L6AyQ

I play the 12 second exercise then at 14 secs I play the two notes that clash for me. Any thoughts?

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:08 pm
by RichardT
adrian_k wrote:I feel like the man who mistook his wife for a hat.

So I plugged my guitar tuner in and it thinks that the low G is about right but the high B is 5-10 cents sharp.

I did a factory reset and same thing.

I recorded some notes and looked at the the tuning in my DAW. The low G looks a couple of cents flat. The high B starts off 20 cents sharp but quickly drops to a few cents flat and then evens out. As you expect a string to do I guess.

So as Giles suggests I recorded the exercise I'm practising at the moment:
https://soundcloud.com/user-458189431/keyboard-test/s-FwkoT1L6AyQ

I play the 12 second exercise then at 14 secs I play the two notes that clash for me. Any thoughts?

The G to B interval sounds wrong to me.

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:08 pm
by BJG145
...and definitely no honky-tonk pitch-shift dialled in as per this demo...?

https://youtu.be/gLXXrZ5onNA?t=75

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:18 pm
by adrian_k
BJG145 wrote:...and definitely no honky-tonk pitch-shift dialled in as per this demo...?

https://youtu.be/gLXXrZ5onNA?t=75

Nope - first thing I checked! Along with all other effects. That pitch shift effect sounds different anyway, it adds a bit of pitch shifted note back into the original so even a single note on it's own sounds wonky.

Hmmm...

Re: Novice question - keyboard tuning.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:02 pm
by blinddrew
If you were to record that as a midi file (if you've still got everything plugged in) you could lob it into a VSTi and compare?