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Roland SH-201 makeover

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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Sun May 02, 2021 10:18 am

Folderol wrote:It's a bit tedious, but at work when designing panels and sending to have the metalwork done we always did a second copy with just cross-hair centres, letter labels, and a table of dimensions (all references from a single point).

Thanks, Will. Not a bad idea, to include a copy with the main dimensions. What are letter labels - just the text element of the panel, or something else?

One of the linked printers, possibly Screencraft, said ‘talk to us as early as possible’ so I can see that needing to happen soonish. No doubt they will have their own requirements on dimensioning etc. Also I would want to make sure that, assuming they can accept PDF, I get the right PDF format for printing, including CMYK etc. I will also have to find out whether it is possible to do a one-off, or whether there will be a minimum order - I think 10 was quoted by Synthgraphics. I don’t really want to go into business doing this (unproven market!) so the cost and run size might end up determining the supplier and process. £60 for a new front panel is one thing, £600 for nine I don’t want is quite another.

I have made a guide PDF on the iPad which incorporates all the hidden sound-shaping parameters onto the panel in roughly the right places. This needs to be converted into decent graphics in Affinity Publisher, but I have proven to myself that this will create a much more editable SH-201. There are quite a few additional hidden settings, but these are system settings rather than sound-shaping parameters (e.g. MIDI Clock source, MIDI clock out yes/no) so are better off in a little print-out rather than on the front panel.

Eee, it’s all good fun. :D
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby Folderol » Sun May 02, 2021 11:49 am

BillB wrote:
Folderol wrote:It's a bit tedious, but at work when designing panels and sending to have the metalwork done we always did a second copy with just cross-hair centres, letter labels, and a table of dimensions (all references from a single point).

Thanks, Will. Not a bad idea, to include a copy with the main dimensions. What are letter labels - just the text element of the panel, or something else?
BillB wrote:
Folderol wrote:It's a bit tedious, but at work when designing panels and sending to have the metalwork done we always did a second copy with just cross-hair centres, letter labels, and a table of dimensions (all references from a single point).

Thanks, Will. Not a bad idea, to include a copy with the main dimensions. What are letter labels - just the text element of the panel, or something else?

Just labels to identify features for the table of dimensions.

So if we had something like 20 6.5mm holes and 5 20x25mm rectangles their centres would be marked with cross hairs on the drawing, and the table below world be:

All dimensions mm.
A: 6.5 +- 0.25
B: 20x25 +- 1
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BigRedX » Sun May 02, 2021 4:48 pm

BillB wrote:One of the linked printers, possibly Screencraft, said ‘talk to us as early as possible’ so I can see that needing to happen soonish. No doubt they will have their own requirements on dimensioning etc. Also I would want to make sure that, assuming they can accept PDF, I get the right PDF format for printing, including CMYK etc. I will also have to find out whether it is possible to do a one-off, or whether there will be a minimum order - I think 10 was quoted by Synthgraphics. I don’t really want to go into business doing this (unproven market!) so the cost and run size might end up determining the supplier and process. £60 for a new front panel is one thing, £600 for nine I don’t want is quite another.

I have made a guide PDF on the iPad which incorporates all the hidden sound-shaping parameters onto the panel in roughly the right places. This needs to be converted into decent graphics in Affinity Publisher, but I have proven to myself that this will create a much more editable SH-201. There are quite a few additional hidden settings, but these are system settings rather than sound-shaping parameters (e.g. MIDI Clock source, MIDI clock out yes/no) so are better off in a little print-out rather than on the front panel.

Eee, it’s all good fun. :D

If this is going to be screen printed they may well want this done as spot colours, probably Pantones. It will be a good idea to check with your printer now.
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Sun May 02, 2021 7:13 pm

Then my next job is to decide who my printer is! Just thought, don’t want to misdirect you: ‘Screencraft’ are digital printers, so I don’t think silk-screening is likely to play a role, unless I am misunderstanding the terminology. I am, however, going to talk to a couple of printers soon.
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby Folderol » Sun May 02, 2021 7:39 pm

BillB wrote:Then my next job is to decide who my printer is! Just thought, don’t want to misdirect you: ‘Screencraft’ are digital printers, so I don’t think silk-screening is likely to play a role, unless I am misunderstanding the terminology. I am, however, going to talk to a couple of printers soon.
Not trying to teach grandma how to suck eggs, but I'd say it's important to ask them how they like it presented, not tell them what you are going to do :tongue:
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Sun May 02, 2021 8:52 pm

All I am saying is that traditional screen printing is not the same as digital printing to vinyl or Lexar, although I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a digital front-end to the artwork process nowadays.

But yes, I know I am out of my depth as regards printing - I will be asking, not telling!
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Mon May 03, 2021 8:14 pm

Well, some initial organising of layers and a bit of simplification of the graphics, suggests that Roland could possibly have done a classier job with the SH-201 - even without altering any of the layout.

Image

Next step is to have a look at re-arranging the graphics a bit, perhaps with some nice blue bands at the top of each section, maybe going for the MPG-80 Super Jupiter programmer look. That Roland white and cyan on on charcoal grey is so classy.

I wondered about Jupiter 8 orange livery, but it seems a bit presumptuous! Tempted to see what both options look like - it's easy whilst everything is digital. Then add the 'hidden function' text and see if it still hangs together.

Although I get the logic of the 'tabbed' look for LFO1/2 and Osc1/2, I want to get away from it if possible - but the vertically-offset LEDs are going to make it a bit tricky. Fun to figure out though.
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby Martin Walker » Mon May 03, 2021 10:09 pm

BillB wrote:Interesting comment in the http://www.synthgraphics.com/faq.html:

Q: Why are your products so expensive, isn't this just a “sticker”?
A: Our products use the highest quality lexan polycarbonate sheets and printing process available that will last the lifetime of the instrument, unlike a cheap vinyl sticker. We also don't produce these in mass quantities like big manufactures, so our cost per unit is higher.

Also, they will do custom orders - minimum 10-off!

Incidentally, there is no evidence on their website that they are UK-based, everything suggests US. Do you have prior knowledge, Martin?

My apologies Bill - the top-most testimonial on their front page is from "Steve, Savage Electronics UK", while their website style seemed restrained yet professional with little reference to $, so I rather assumed that they were based in the UK, but it seems not.

I suspect your later comments about contacting a local printer could well be the most fruitful approach, assuming they understand the importance of accurate dimensions.


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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Tue May 04, 2021 9:04 am

No problem, Martin. It was very useful to look over those links and start to get an idea of materials and approaches. Everybody’s thoughts, suggestions and warnings are very helpful in hopefully avoiding an expensive mistake.
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby Dave B » Tue May 04, 2021 9:30 am

I like your designs and think that the MPG look could be really cool.

But .. those offset 1/2 buttons .. someone in Roland really wants shooting for that. Now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it and it is horrid!

:)

I'm also following this thread as I have half a mind to overhaul my old Wavestation keyboard (discussed many moons ago) to be more Oberheim looking ... just to annoy people really... I was thinking of making a template to spray the pinstripes on, but do wonder if an overlay may be better. Hmm.

And I need to do some woodworking to get the end cheeks looking right :D
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 am

Thanks, Dave. I'll be happy to share what I find in case others want to do similar things.

Yes, the OSC1/2 and LFO1/2 button/LEDs sort of make sense in the tabbed interface design, but they are not even the same distance apart: LFO1/2 have a bigger vertical gap between them than OSC1/2. You can see how they bodged it by looking at the 45 degree tabbed edge between the two sets of LEDs. This makes a consistent blue top bar difficult to achieve. If the buttons had been vertically aligned it would be a doddle.

Oh well, it's good to have a design challenge. :headbang:
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Re: Roland SH-201 makeover

Postby BillB » Mon May 10, 2021 12:29 am

Next step of the design:

Image

and the full keyboard to put it into context

Image

It has been a bit of a struggle, fighting the hardware layout (e.g. OSC1 button crashing into the Triangle wave symbol.

Also, there is a part on the far right that lists the Delay/Reverb FX Types, which has to sit beyond the main panel I was wanting to work on. But I think it has to be this way.

Ideally, the D-Beam would also have a cyan header band but - the D-Beam is in the way!

The basic rules are: white text, more or less as per original; cyan on white text = hold down Cancel button then whichever button / knob; orange text = some other key / knob / slider combination (e.g. reverb parameters).

Now I need to stop having so much fun and get serious: scale this up to real world units and contact some printers to see what they make of it and how they want it presenting, but I really needed to create a workable version first, to prove the concept.

In the meantime, I would be greatful if the synth-folks would take look and see if they would do or label anything in any different way. Comments and criticisms welcome.
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