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DIY Studio Build Diary

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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:13 pm

rock crushes paper ;)
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:30 pm

Just a quick update to say i finished some wood panels including the kraft backing paper and have got my final design which seems to work - same as last one but with two 2" blocks of wood spaced from the centre of the panels for support instead of one central 4". Will get some pictures up soon.

The fiberglass joint mesh tape did not work at all for preventing sag. When i tried to tension it just snapped through the staples.

I don't want to use a central wood strip as it will spoil the way the panels look and i really wanted to avoid having to do the full length with chicken wire. I was going to try a small ( 4"-6" wide ) central strip of the fine ( 13 mm holed ) metal mesh/netting/chicken wire and tension it with staples. I am compression fitting the mineral wool by 2 mm all round and the corners seem pretty snug.

Do you think this will be sufficient for the 60 kg/m3 i'm using or is it best to use the larger holed chicken wire and do the full length ?

Any thoughts ?

Cheers

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby thefruitfarmer » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:17 am

Helmutcrab wrote:

Do you think this will be sufficient for the 60 kg/m3 i'm using or is it best to use the larger holed chicken wire and do the full length ?

Any thoughts ?

Cheers

Peter

Personally, I would bite the bullet and fit the chicken wire.

It is an arse to work with, it will take a while if you are not used to it and you can cut yourself on the stuff. However, it will do the job.

Bear in mind that it will be covered by fabric so it does not need to be spot on accurate, you are not going to see it in the finished article.
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:46 pm

Hi thefruitfarmer,

I tried this http://www.meshdirect.co.uk/Lightweight-19-20-gauge-0-9mm-wi... type of wire mesh (13 x 13 mm) in 2 thin strips across the panel - didn't work.

I then tried to get the same mesh over the full panel but regardless of what i did it always bubbled up in the middle even under considerable tension - right where i did not want it too. I think the main reason is because it is 900 mm wide and cutting both sides would take too long. I think the only way the mesh may work is if it had a wooden batt across the centre but that defeats the purpose.

Looks like its chicken wire time !. Do you think it will be strong enough in the centre to take 6" of rockwool pressing down on it when the panels are hung from the ceiling and wall/ceiling corners ?

I'm off to get some chicken wire - this is going to be fun. My fingers are already bust up by the mesh.

Got any tips please ?

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby thefruitfarmer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:08 pm

Helmutcrab wrote:

Looks like its chicken wire time !. Do you think it will be strong enough in the centre to take 6" of rockwool pressing down on it when the panels are hung from the ceiling and wall/ceiling corners ?

I'm off to get some chicken wire - this is going to be fun. My fingers are already bust up by the mesh.

Got any tips please ?

Peter

It is quite a fiddly job.

Be prepared to spend a bit of time doing it.

However, I found it easiest when I got the chicken wire the same width as the slab and used long nosed pliers to yank it tight with...

It can cut you so get some sticky plasters as well.

Once done it will hold the RW in place.

It is quite hard to describe how to fit it over the forum. Something I did do was to push the long sides of the frame in slightly and then use the springiness to help tension the chicken wire.

Try to get it so the sharp ends of wire are inside the frame or you may have to put some beading over them to stop them cutting you each time you move them...
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Folderol » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:45 pm

Helmutcrab wrote:Hi thefruitfarmer,

I tried this http://www.meshdirect.co.uk/Lightweight-19-20-gauge-0-9mm-wi... type of wire mesh (13 x 13 mm) in 2 thin strips across the panel - didn't work.

I then tried to get the same mesh over the full panel but regardless of what i did it always bubbled up in the middle even under considerable tension - right where i did not want it too. I think the main reason is because it is 900 mm wide and cutting both sides would take too long. I think the only way the mesh may work is if it had a wooden batt across the centre but that defeats the purpose.
Remember what I said about giving the wire a twist with a pair of pliers? It works especially well on this type of mesh.
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:01 pm

You beauty ! Chicken wire worked a treat :).

It is rock solid and won't sag. It was easy compared to the galvanised mesh i was trying to use before - that was hell. If only i had used chicken wire at the start as suggested by thefruitfarmer i could have saved myself a lot of hassle, but lessons learned.

The fruit farmer - that trick with the broad nose pliers worked a treat, especially when i could grip the wire with the pliers, then use the end of them to push the long sides of the frame inwards, so thanks very much for that one :D.

Folderol - thanks for that tip also. I actually didn't need to use it as it was really tight once finished but it is very handy to know if i don't get a panel tight enough with staples :D

I am so chuffed this worked and how good it works.

I would like to add a couple of things safety wise for anyone interested. Use gloves with a good springy rubber grip. These were brilliant and totally protected my hands from getting cut and damaged from pressure :

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Workwear/Gloves/Thermogrip+Gloves+XLarge/d70/sd570/p32235

Also, you really need to wear large protective glasses like these :

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Workwear/Eyewear/Safety+Spectacles/d70/sd2775/p96583

If any of that wire springs back in your eyes its game over for vision. I had that happen with the wire at the start as the first metre of it was all mangled and had to be cut off. Only caught my nose though and i was wearing glasses.

I will get some photos up soon.

Thanks very much fellas

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:48 pm

Update with photos

The final design i think. Same as last one but with two 2" supports as seen instead of one 4" will give more even support.

Image

Unpacking 50 metres of 4 oz polyester wadding (40" wide). I got a bit of a shock when i snipped off the plastic straps and took it out. The pictures do not show just how big it was uncovered. It nearly filled half the width of the room and was even bigger when stood up length ways. I had to do some room rearranging so i could get enough room to cut it.

Image

Image

Just about managed :

Image

First effort at covering in 10 oz hessian ( open weave upholstery fabric ). Probably stapled a bit tight. You will probably notice hailstones just starting. It turned into a torrential downpour just after i took these photos.

Image

Kraft paper and 13 mm chicken wire visible on rear of panel.

Image

Front of panel covered in chicken wire, poly wadding and hessian. As you can see i made the mistake of putting the cut corner ends of hessian on top of the rest of the hessian. I will put these underneath the full hessian covering so they are not visible on the rest of the panels and can be secured with the same staples used for the full covering.

Image

There was no wood left to attach the hessian to the rear of the frame due to this been used to staple the chicken wire. I therefore had to trim it around the full length of the panel.

Image

This first panel was actually one of the earlier heavier 1" x 2" frames ( i made two like this before thefruitfarmer made me realise they were unnecessarily heavy for wall hanging ) . They will be used to stand in a room corner.

As mentioned earlier, i covered both the front and rear faces with chicken wire with the intention of turning the panels around for different situations ( absorption for recording and semi reflection - paper - for mixing ).This would stop them sagging or coming out of the frame/losing their shape, but i don't think it is necessary to do both sides now as i have decided to leave the panels in place once fitted. I have decided this primarily because the chicken wire needs to be trimmed off at the 600 mm sides/ends of the panels in order to allow the fabric to be stapled there. As already mentioned by thefruitfarmer, this causes sharp ends of metal to protrude through the fabric. The excess chicken wire from tensioning on the 1200 mm sides can be compressed back into the frame without any loss of tension as long as enough staples are used on both sides. This is allowed by the fact that the 600mm wide chicken wire has metal strips at each side to avoid sharp ends. However at the cut ends this is obviously not the case. The only way i found around this problem was to leave a little excess wire and fold it over the corner of the wood with a hammer. I could not leave too much wire on the rear side as this is where the fabric needed to be stapled. If i just use chicken wire on one face, then this problem can be avoided by folding over a larger amount of wire, therefore reducing the chance of it sticking up.

I would love to know how Zukan and Max managed to wrap and staple fabric all around both faces of their thin wood panels which had chicken wire on both sides. Maybe they just did as i did ?

Also, i would like to thank both Zukan and Max for the SOS D.I.Y tutorial as it helped me to fit the chicken wire.

Cheers

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby thefruitfarmer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:38 pm

Excellent pics...

When you going to get them fitted to hear what difference they make?

Have you decided how to fit them yet?

I used screw eyes and cable ties, but there are several other methods too......
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Hi thefruitfarmer,

It is really tight in the room at present because i had to buy a lot of the insulation as a bulk buy. I am going to try to stand the eight corner panels up first once they are made to give me a little more space. There is just so much stuff in there for the build that i need to get some space and the best way to do that is to build more but i get what your saying. I will try the sound as soon as i get the corners done i think.

Do you think my plan of 25 + panels is over kill ? ( 2-3 will double as gobos)

I am fitting the panels like yourself with eye screws but plan to use picture hanging cord ( can take 5 stones ) :

http://www.ukpictureframingsupplies.co.uk/low-stretch-picture-hanging-cord-no-2---sold-per-metre-166-p.asp

I will use four eye screws for the wall/ceiling corner panels. These will attach to two large long ceiling eye hooks/screws screwed through the double plasterboard of the ceiling and into the joists ( plenty joists available at 33-40 cm's apart ).

For the wall hanging panels, i cannot attach them to the walls as the walls cannot bare any weight ( made them wrong ). I was thinking of using two screw eyes close together on both sides on the top of the panels with the same hanging cord going up to the same ceiling eye hooks.
The wall panels will be 6" off the wall. I will use 2 or 4 wooden corner pieces ( 6" long ) glued to the backs of the panels to stabilise them off the wall.

Does this sound feasible to you ?

Thanks

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby thefruitfarmer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:04 pm

That sounds like it would work....

...a screw eye in each corner of the trap attached by strong cord to screw eyes in the joists.

Just make sure it feels sturdy and solid, you can always put a couple more screw eyes in the joist if it feels a bit unsafe.
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:21 am

Cheers, i was hoping you would say that :)

I will be using an extra pair of ceiling hooks for the wall hanging panels just outside of the ones for the wall-ceiling panels.

I will get some photos up as soon as i've got the corner panels in place,

Thanks again for all the help

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby GIK Acoustics » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:49 pm

Not sure how I missed this entire thread! I guess I thought the stickies never changed so I ignored them. Only found it now because of your PM months ago Peter! I've never even seen the blinking PM message since January. I need to double check these things more often.

Anyways,

Good work!
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby Helmutcrab » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:10 pm

Very glad to have you aboard captain ! :lol:

Ive just finished the fabric on my third panel - nearly got it right. The next one will be done right. I got 40" hessian and 100cm poly wadding. The hessian has a nice machine sewed edge on both long sides so i just take my time lining it up then double it over at the margin and staple it to the back of the wood frame. Looks good when i get it right and avoids horrible hessian cut edges which keep on fraying. I forgot to leave enough material to go around the back on the short 600mm sides on the last one but other than that i am getting the hang of it.

I will get some more pictures up once i've made my next lot of panels with the final design ( in terms of how and where i attach the fabric ). As already mentioned i am now only using chicken wire on the face of the panel that will face into the room.

I am actually enjoying making these now after finally working out how to make them ( and i normally can't stand D.I.Y ) but it gives me a sense of achievement when i see something i have made myself.

Saying that, if i had the money i would not have hesitated to buy a load of G.I.K acoustics monster bass traps. The amount of time and effort involved in the research, design and making of the panels is considerable - many,many months in fact. Add to this the money involved and the anxiety of getting it wrong ( which is real easy to do ) and it just doesn't make sense at all other than for those that have very little money but plenty of time.

The only one advantage there might be for me personally over using 6" commercial bass traps ( and please correct me if i am wrong here Alexander ) is that they all seem to have a semi reflective face, where as i can choose between this and broadband absorption, broadband being more necessary over all for my purposes. Thanks to you pointing out that 6" panels would be better than 4" , i have used 6" for every panel. This allows me to have 6" broadbands at the RFZ as this has low frequency problems across the width of the room i think. In a small room like mine every panel counts and like you say the deeper they are the better. In fact i think i'm only going to have the corner panels that meet the front wall and two panels centrally on that wall in front of the mixing position with their reflective side into the room, all others will be absorption. I was going to have more on the back wall but when i measured it from speakers to the back wall and back to the mixing position it was pretty close to 20 ft ( 20 ms ?? ) so i thought i would do absorption to be on the safe side.

Cheers,

Peter
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Re: DIY Studio Build Diary

Postby GIK Acoustics » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:51 am

Peter,

I am happy if you're a customer or a DIYer, as long as you're getting the results you need in your room! I agree that for some, its time well spent. You can always feel good when you get to enjoy something you've done from scratch yourself, whether it's cooking a delicious dinner or building a synthesizer. But just as you've noted, some might already not have enough hair in the first place to begin ripping it out while building their own bass traps/pre-amps/synths, etc.

Actually, none of our broadband traps are partially reflective - you're likely thinking of Ethan's company. We do have some that aren't fully broadband like our tuned Scopus line and we also have our Scatter Plates that can be added to get scattering/diffusion as well as absorption in a 2x4 panel, but our standard traps (Monster, 244, etc) are fully broadband.

I do suggest at least 4", if not bigger for most panels in a room (if not all, especially in a small room) as you've said. For reference, our 244 is 5.5" thick and is usually the minimum I suggest in a room unless you only need to treat flutter echo. I think you'll get great results with your panels!
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