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Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:06 pm
by funkyant
In all fairness, how could Roland possibly have predicted that 15+ years down the track, the key weight epoxy would self destruct?

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:14 pm
by garden
I purchase XP-80 in 1997, The first time happen the key weight dorp down in 2000 April.
Since then i no more use my XP-80, and re-pack in the origin box save in the garage.
recently re-open the box, all the key weight drop down.....

I find the way to clean the epoxy as following;
soak in the NaOH(caustic soda)diluted solution for 60-120min.

i got perfect result. The "red epoxy" melt slowly by slowly, then all gone.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:10 am
by Guest
Absolutely correct!!! Caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) diluted with h2o will disolve the glue and maintain the plastic keys and lead weights. Thankyou my friends you have saved an ep9 played by a very close friend recently gone. Disolve the resin in sodium hydoxide solution and then rinse with fresh water. The black key weights will naturally fall out - resoak them in solution to clean. Remove white keys from solution and then apply boiling water to weight recess. Pry weights carefully out with fine flat blade screwdriver. Resoak in solution to remove residual resin. Wash with soap water and dry. Thankyou to all contributants to this thread,

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:26 am
by Quaver
Interesting thread,I had the labourous job of doing this with my JD800 last year,Wish I had seen this before about the Caustic soda,I used Isopropyl alcohol to remove the Epoxy,and a lot of elbow grease and soaking for sure!!!,thankfully most of the epoxy had stayed intact apart from a few drips here and there on the metal chassis under the keys,the key contacts were ok and I managed to get most of the glue off the keys

I used a small Blob of superglue on each corner of the weight and simply refixed them Inside the keys,since then have not had so much as a single movement in the weights so far so good

It seems that Roland still use this Epoxy(or tree sap,at least its almost as annoying to remove as TS)I noticed its fitted to the keys on my V synth GT as well and also there is a similar type of resin fitted to the Keys on the DSI prophet 08 as well :?

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:30 am
by Kiwi1
Wow - what a great thread. Thanks everyone.
Question - what dilution of caustic soda worked for you? (ie how much caustic soda to water)
Thanks.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:08 am
by wknick
Caustic Soda (NaOH) it is!!! You guys are the best for posting this info! I was totally bummed cause I thought I got a good deal on a used D70 only to learn it was afflicted with the dreaded melted epoxy on the keys syndrome. Went and got some Caustic Soda from Lowe's and the adhesive was dissolving and coming off within minutes! Excellent info! Can't thank you enough!

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:13 am
by wknick
Just be extremely careful with Caustic Soda to anyone that uses this stuff to clean the keys. I also bought some chemical resistant gloves, respirator and eye protection. Very poisonous and harmful. Can cause burns in contact with the skin...!

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:02 am
by funkyant
Wow. I seriously cannot believe this thread is still going!

Caustic Soda huh? Who would've thunk it?

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:28 pm
by FA13
Great thread :) I'm about to pickup a Roland U-20 and a Roland JV-80 for a few bucks that are both advertised as 'most keys not working'. I'm gonna try and fix them just for the fun of it.

When I have them and have taken them apart I will share my experiences.

Bonus tip: if you're looking for free PDF service manuals for a lot of vintage synths look no further: http://www.synfo.nl/pages/servicemanuals.html (not my site, just found it googling for answers :))

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:32 am
by Tartaruga
‘Red Epoxy Syndrom ‘ alert…!!!
The weights of my beloved JD-800 start to fall(and local Roland servicing is not trust worthy… :-(
To make things worth,I don’t know if I can trust my DIY abilities …I’m I totally doomed?
Could anyone give the contact adress of ‘Roland’,I would like to talk with them but can’t find the address(Europe,Portugal,whatever…)?
Thanks for your time.
Cheers.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:09 pm
by Timmo
My XP80 has the same perishing glue issue. I have taken the steps above and stripped the keyboard down, cleaned all of the keys using a strong solution of caustic soda, (I was a bit dubious of this at first, but it's fine), and I've re-glued the keys using a good quality glue.
My problem is that, apart from losing one of the retaining springs somewhere in the mess of my office, one of the white keys is physically shorter than the rest in length and therefore sits low, I numbered all the keys as I took them off so i know it is back in the original place, I've swapped it with another key the same shape, the new key sits fine, so can anyone tell me if they have experienced the same issue, or how the key was sitting perfectly prior to me taking it apart to clean?

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:26 pm
by keyboardologist
Hello,
I'm also trying to fix my beloved D70, I have collected 2 more used same synths (D70) with the glue problem (plus some more) and I have managed to repair in total 2 of these, but all 3 keyboards suffer from perishing glue.
I was considering keeping the best of the 76 (out of 228), just for the one clav, but I have a lot of work to do to fix them. I will try Caustic Soda to one key and see the results. Also, I was thinking about using warm silicone for gluing the weights onto the keys.
I would get back with news...

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:38 am
by SKY5031
The conditions that I have run into that causes the problem with decomposition of the epoxy used by Roland keyboards such as the JV 50 80 90 1000, xp 80 90, U20's and others that have this type of epoxy in part is caused by the case that it is stored in. You wonder how ? The foam
padding used in most cases is what they call a closed cell foam, and the bubbles that you see that make up the foam action is in part a gas action caused while curing the foam into a shape. In time all plastics go though a form a decomposition and in the process give off a gas that in trap in the process of manufacturing. In the case of the Roland keyboards that I've repaired they have been stored for a period of time in closed case and while closed the foam material starts a process of out gasing. The gas that is produced interacts with the curing agent in the epoxy causing the the decomposition and running of the glue all over he keys and frame parts. Is there a fix? Yes and a way to clean this glue up. I've talked to Roland service dept about this problem and the interaction of the materials and sent them the procedure that I use to repair the keyboard rack. It requires time, and dis-assembly of all the keyboard components and then re-gluing with a 5-minute epoxy. I'll add second post with the instructions.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:16 am
by SKY5031
instructions for epoxy glue removal.use at your own risk.
shopping list:1 deep pan or bucket, 1 small wide paint brush, 1 pair rubber gloves, and the cleaning agent is call "Awesome" purchase thu the dollar store or dollar general, most chain store
carry this brand, !IMPORTANT! use only the yellow colored product for this process.
Remove 1 white key and one black key. for testing. with a small amount of awesome take and dip a
"Q" tip in the solution to test the plastic of the key on back end of the key, this cannot be used cheaper plastic which is not made like the higher end keys .Rub the plastic with
the solution to make sure that the Awesome doesnt attack the plastic and leave a mark where you've rubbed it, judged safe proceed. Most of the better keyboard use glass filled nylon key when they were molded and most cleaning agents will not attack the plastic. Once your sure that there is not a inter action of the cleaner dis assemble the keyboard rack (take pictures of the key assembly so you dont forget where things go, draw pictures, mark cables etc. With all the keys off place in the bucket, pour the awesome in to the bucket and cover all the keys,let sit for five hours. You'll notice after awhile the glue will start to dissolve, weights will fall off to the bottom of the bucket or pry off easy. Once weights are off raise with water and repeat using the gloves and brush as required till all the glue is remove and re soak. Once clean re assemble using a small amount of 5 minute place about a half inch from the tip of the key underside and center, work the weight back and forth the distribute the epoxy to cover the weight and coat the weight well of the key surface. let stand for a hour and re-assemble, epoxy
should cure completely in 24hours. Any questions email me here and I'll try to help you out. sky5031

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:37 am
by srkendal
Here is some info I found in another forum, and how I used it:

QUOTE HERE ***********
Sodium hydroxide (NaOH, lye) solution works great to dissolve the red glue without harming the plastic. Here's my technique.

WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES. Even dilute NaOH can permanently damage your eyes.

The sodium hydroxide I like to use is granular NaOH, which I've bought on eBay. If you can get Red Devil lye or some other pelletized NaOH at your hardware store, that will work too, but the granular NaOH dissolves faster.

In a plastic bucket, mix 80 grams NaOH with 2 liters of water until all the NaOH is dissolved. (The bucket will get warm.) Be careful not to splash any of the solution on yourself. If you do, wash it off promptly with a lot of water.

[For you chemistry types, this recipe makes a 1-molar (1 mole/L) solution of sodium hydroxide.]

Immerse the keys in the lye solution. You only need to soak the part with the glue on it, so don't worry if the narrow parts of the keys aren't bathed in the solution.

Leave the keys soaking in the solution for 18-24 hours. After this time, no traces of the red glue should remain, and the weights will simply fall out of the keys into the bucket.

Carefully pour the NaOH solution down the drain. Don't let the weights get poured down the drain too.

Rinse everything with a lot of water. Dry the weights as best you can. It's normal for a bit of rust-colored oxidation to form on the weights.

I like to let the keys soak another 24 hours in a bucket of soapy water. This bath helps eliminate the fishy odor left on the keys by the reaction of the lye solution with the red glue.

When everything is dry and clean, re-glue the weights into the keys. I have had great results using a popsicle stick to apply a dab of 5-minute epoxy to each key. Make sure the weights are properly centered.

The best way to get red glue off the metal chassis is to blast it with freeze spray, then, while the stuff is frozen hard and brittle, chip it off with a single-edged razor blade.

And that's it. Have fun.
END QUOTE ************

I used a bubbler (a simple type of pump) to keep the lye solution moving and wah the glue out of the keys. I simply took a scrap of 3/4" PVC pipe just long enough that it will sit in the bucket from one corner in the bottom to a point below but near the top of the liquid on the other side. I put a piece of aquarium air tubing though a hole in the side of the pipe near the bottom, and curved it toward the upper end. when air is pumped through the tube into the pipe, the bubbles rise through the pipe and pull the solution along, creating a general circulation in the bucket.

Image

I wanted to have plenty of solution to soak all the keys, so I mixed up the entire 1 lb container from the hardware store in the same concentration as above: 80 grams NaOH to 2 liters of water is the same concentration as 1 Lb NaOH to 6 quarts of water. Do your homework and read up on the web how to mix the lye and water, and how much heat is generated when mixed. This is a very powerful chemical!
Pay attention to all the safety warnings above, and enjoy your rehabilitated keyboard!
quote from this forum: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -glue.html