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Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby srkendal » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:52 pm

I don't know why the image won't appear above, but if you right click and "open image in a new tab" you can see a diagram of the bubbler setup.

Or, this link to the picture might work:
Bubbler Diagram
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby keyboardologist » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Hello again!
I've done some work cause I'm on vacations and I have the time to.

First, I researched the keys before disassemble out of the 3 keyboard chassis. No common algorithm or sequence related with the key part numbers on the keys. CF, D, EB, G, A with any part numbers in any octave. None of funkyant's sequence in any of my keyboards and none of my 3 keyboards having something in common about that.

So I moved on and tested one white key with Sodium hydroxide (NaOH/caustic soda) solution with great success.
Please take all safety instructions and always wear thick plastic gloves.
NaOH solution does not affect most of the hard plastics at all, plastic bucket or pail are fine for use.

The weight fell out of the key about 3 hours after, and with some minutes later everything was clean, the key and the weight too. I washed out with fresh water and dry it. The key and the weight is superb.
I then put some clear silicone glue sticks using a hot gun like this http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv163/cbickell/IMG_1444copy.jpg and glue the weight in. Excellent result!

Then I used a bigger bucket with 6L of water and 240gr of NaOH to put the 3x keyboard keys, over 220keys! I was putting about 50 keys every time in the solution. Most of the weights fell of after 4 to 5 hours but some of them had to be laid almost 24hours to come off, most of them were black keys. The solution in the bucket soon became really cloudy with a lot of red glue dirt floating like dust/powder inside. I used the same solution in the bucket for all of my keys.

I was always using a second bucket, with clean water which I was refreshing often, to put the cleaned keys and the weights and wash them out.
I left most of the keys for 24hours in the clean water but I did the mistake to also leave the weights in another bucket of water for many hours! Too bad...

1. So unfortunately, the weights of the white keys rusted :-(

2. Second problem is that, most of the keys have a little white dirt stuck on them which need some rubbing to come off. It is more evident on the black keys as it's white, but it's also in the same amount on the white keys. I may mix a new NaOH solution to do a test, cause the big bucket has dirt of glue inside now.

I have some photos of the procedure that I can post if someone wants to.

I would be grateful for some advice on removing the rust out of the weights!!!

And sorry for my bad English!
Greetings from Greece and have a nice summer ending!
keyboardologist
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Re: Roland: VK-7 re-assembly

Postby Earl J » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:40 am

Well I've repaired the sticking keys and replaced broken ones. The feel is very food. I however didn't take pictures of the steps when taking it apart. Those anyone have pictures of reassembling the keyboard? That would be a great help to me.


Thanks
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby FA13 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:41 pm

keyboardologist wrote:

First, I researched the keys before disassemble out of the 3 keyboard chassis. No common algorithm or sequence related with the key part numbers on the keys. CF, D, EB, G, A with any part numbers in any octave. None of funkyant's sequence in any of my keyboards and none of my 3 keyboards having something in common about that.



I have repaired a U-20, JV-80 and D-70 with the glue problem but I only wrote down the key sequence for the JV-80. I just reassembled the U-20 and D-70 without looking at the numbers behind the CF-xx, D-xx etc. and now I have incorrect spacing between the keys... It just doesn't look right..

I have compared the keys of my D-70 with the sequence mentioned earlier in the topic but no sigar.. the keynumbers on my D-70 are different.

I wonder if i'm doing something wrong because even Roland support says the keys are identical (eg CF-11, CF12, CF-13, CF-14.. no difference in dimensions)

Still, this might help someone:

Key order for (my) Roland JV-80:

cf12 2-3 d12 2-4 eb14 cf14 2-1 g11 2-2 a12 2-3 eb11
cf12 2-4 d12 2-1 eb14 cf14 2-2 g11 2-3 a12 2-4 eb11
cf11 2-1 d11 2-2 eb13 cf12 2-3 g12 2-4 a11 2-1 eb12
cf13 2-2 d12 2-3 eb11 cf11 2-4 g11 2-1 a12 2-2 eb14
cf14 2-3 d11 2-4 eb12 cf13 2-1 g12 2-2 a11 2-3 eb13 c12

Hope someone has a suggestion for my U-20 and D-70 without me having to trail and error the correct sequence :lol:

Weird that the normal home use Roland keyboards like the E-series have no partnumbers written on the keys.. As long as you put them in the C D E F G A B order.. It's allways good.. same goes for the black keys. And I have taken quite a few of those apart :)
FA13
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Exalted Wombat » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:12 pm

You don't really need a key-order list. When you line all the keys up, there's only one order that works, with the white ones fitting neatly around the blacks. Keys that look identical, ARE identical.
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont bore us with beefing about it. Go fishing instead.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Exalted Wombat » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:13 pm

Exalted Wombat wrote:You don't really need a key-order list. When you line all the keys up, there's only one order that works, with the white ones fitting neatly around the blacks. Keys that look identical, ARE identical.
Exalted Wombat
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You don't have to write songs. The world doesn't want you to write songs. It would probably prefer it if you didn't. So write songs if you want to. Otherwise, dont bore us with beefing about it. Go fishing instead.

Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby FA13 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:23 pm

Today I mailed Roland again and they too said that the numbers are just from the mold they come from and that it shouldn't make any difference... I'm will have another look this weekend but I'm 99% positive that it does make a difference in spacing when you change a CF-11 for a CF-14 for example.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby tmpsa » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:51 pm

Glue! That became my solution to the "pink goo" problem. The pink goo had not yet melted, so some glue will keep it in place forever. (Just what is that pink goo? A by-product from some obsure japanese fish product?)

Tip! When disassembling your Roland U-20 (or similar): keep track of the myriad of screws! There are a lot of them, and many different types. You will thank yourself when you try to assemble again.

This is a great thread! I got a lot of useful info!!

Disaster! After re-assembling the U-20, it went epileptic. The display showed garbage. No sound. :frown: There's no factory reset! After some googling I found a key sequence that restored it to semi-working condition; piano only. Roland have published a SYSEX file that has to sent to ther U-20 to set it up corrrectly. The only problem was that I failed to send it. Finally, I found the solution: MIDI-ox (the program I used) must be configured in a special way. Full details here:

Midi-ox Forum: Roland U-20 SysEx question [SOLVED]

Hope this helps.


Image
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby handyman » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:17 am

I emailed Roland, asking how to remove the keyboards to fix the glue problem. I got a response but it was just a suggestion that I contact a dealer. Not much help.

I have an Atelier AT-90R and am looking for a detailed procedure to remove the keyboards, such as was posted in this thread about a different model. Would very much appreciate a step-by-step to avoid a serious screwup. TIA.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby 254 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:27 am

I had The same problem with my VK-1000. Tried to clean the red glue but it was a disaster.
2 things I read in this forum I thought it would work.
1. Acetone - this thing ate my keys. It says on the container it my damage plastic but I went ah aid and put it on.
2. Boiling water. It worked! I was able to get the metal out. So I got greedy and put a bunch of them in a boiling water, they all came off. However, the keys got deformed:-( they all were bent.
I think I would have better off to clean as much as I could and cover it with hot glue.
So now I have a Roland Rhodes VK-1000 with no keys. So if anyone needs parts let me know. (Not the keys :-)) the LCD display works but it does not light up. The rest of the keyboard is fine. Except some of the buttons on the top right does not work.
254
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Tartaruga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:27 pm

Hello funkyant

I have myself a Roland keyboard (JD-800) that was almost dead,due to 'red glue syndrom’.Weights falling apart,sticking keys,etc.
After some search for a solution,I asked a technician (Roland certified),if there was any solution proposed by Roland,as this seems to affect a lot of synths from that era.I knew there was time where you could buy a replacement kit,from Roland,as long as your keys were standard,but these kits were nowhere to be found…
What he did was,make photos of the synth(opened),the keys,the glue and…the serial number!
He then sent the photos to Roland Japan that,in view of all references and photos,admitted it was their fault (glue),and proposed a replacement of the entire keyboard(just the keys,not the synth itself),for free…! The technician was quiet surprised by the outcome and told me it’s rare they admit an error and repair it for free (lol).
So after a few months waiting,I just had to pay for hand work by the technician and have now a brand new keyboard :-)
Don’t know if it helps or not.I didn’t feel comfortable enough to do it myself,it happens a nice solution was provided...
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby the dane » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:54 pm

I have had the problem with my XP80, which now is solved. You have to remove all keys, mind the springs. Place all keys in your dishwasher, with the glue-side down. Use the normal soap, and remove all plates, glasses and other from the maschine. Use 75 degrees celsius program 5-6 times. After a few runs, you can pick up the metalplates from the bottom and your plastickeys are clean.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby lmstearn » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Around 8 keys came off the old EP-9. Pretty sure it was from hot days- maybe 40+ degrees. Bit of a mess.
Didn't attempt to clean but restuck with liquid nails. So far, so good.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby DocDon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:20 am

254, did your VK-1000 find a new home yet?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby db rock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:09 am

Try this:

Heat the glue that you want to remove with a hair dryer, it will soften up and then it is much easier to remove.

Once it's warm you can wipe a good deal of it off with just a rag, or lens cleaning wipes. A fine coating will remain -keep it warm - and use acetone on a rag or on cotton balls.

My circuit boards were in good shape, I used just a touch of heat and lens cleaning wipes in just a few spots. I don't know if acetone on a circuit board is a good idea or not.

Best wishes
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