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Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Tartaruga » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:27 pm

Hello funkyant

I have myself a Roland keyboard (JD-800) that was almost dead,due to 'red glue syndrom’.Weights falling apart,sticking keys,etc.
After some search for a solution,I asked a technician (Roland certified),if there was any solution proposed by Roland,as this seems to affect a lot of synths from that era.I knew there was time where you could buy a replacement kit,from Roland,as long as your keys were standard,but these kits were nowhere to be found…
What he did was,make photos of the synth(opened),the keys,the glue and…the serial number!
He then sent the photos to Roland Japan that,in view of all references and photos,admitted it was their fault (glue),and proposed a replacement of the entire keyboard(just the keys,not the synth itself),for free…! The technician was quiet surprised by the outcome and told me it’s rare they admit an error and repair it for free (lol).
So after a few months waiting,I just had to pay for hand work by the technician and have now a brand new keyboard :-)
Don’t know if it helps or not.I didn’t feel comfortable enough to do it myself,it happens a nice solution was provided...
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby the dane » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:54 pm

I have had the problem with my XP80, which now is solved. You have to remove all keys, mind the springs. Place all keys in your dishwasher, with the glue-side down. Use the normal soap, and remove all plates, glasses and other from the maschine. Use 75 degrees celsius program 5-6 times. After a few runs, you can pick up the metalplates from the bottom and your plastickeys are clean.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby lmstearn » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:11 pm

Around 8 keys came off the old EP-9. Pretty sure it was from hot days- maybe 40+ degrees. Bit of a mess.
Didn't attempt to clean but restuck with liquid nails. So far, so good.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby DocDon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:20 am

254, did your VK-1000 find a new home yet?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby db rock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:09 am

Try this:

Heat the glue that you want to remove with a hair dryer, it will soften up and then it is much easier to remove.

Once it's warm you can wipe a good deal of it off with just a rag, or lens cleaning wipes. A fine coating will remain -keep it warm - and use acetone on a rag or on cotton balls.

My circuit boards were in good shape, I used just a touch of heat and lens cleaning wipes in just a few spots. I don't know if acetone on a circuit board is a good idea or not.

Best wishes
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:52 pm

Hi db rock, and welcome to the SOS Forums! 8-)

With a first post as helpful as that, you'll soon make LOADS of friends here :bouncy:


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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby The Elf » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:12 pm

I have a friend who's JD-800 is having this problem right now. It's been fixed once, but it's deteriorated again. Does anyone know if Roland have any compatible replacement keyboards available?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby BillB » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:59 am

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I thought it better to continue a story rather than start a new one.

So, I have got the weights + glue out of the keys and now need to glue the weights back in. Glue criteria:
- strong and durable (don’t want to do this again in another 20 years!)
- Minimal mess on/around the keys
- no adverse effect on the plastic keys.

Choices could include:
- Hot Glue gun with silicone sticks (a bit stringy in my experience)
- two-part epoxy (araldite or similar) but it needs mixing and can’t be applied straight out of the tube into the key wells.
- superglue
- gorilla glue or similar.

Would anyone have any recommendations for the job? A well-known DIY store has 253 glue products!
:headbang:
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby b3bro » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:36 pm

I am in the process of doing this and just used JB Weld clearweld 5 minute epoxy for plastic and metal (read the packaging to make sure it is bonds plastic and metal since they offer several types).
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby BillB » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:35 am

Thanks for the reply, B3bro, and welcome to the forum. :wave:

I am thinking of going down the (bostick) glue gun route, but the glue hasn’t arrived yet, so still open to alternatives.

Did you mix the glue, dip the weights in, then push into the keys? And how far does the standard 25mil package of epoxy go - 1 pack for all 61 keys?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby b3bro » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:28 pm

BillB wrote:Thanks for the reply, B3bro, and welcome to the forum. :wave:

I am thinking of going down the (bostick) glue gun route, but the glue hasn’t arrived yet, so still open to alternatives.

Did you mix the glue, dip the weights in, then push into the keys? And how far does the standard 25mil package of epoxy go - 1 pack for all 61 keys?
It took 2 packages for an 88 key Roland ep-9. since you have to mix the epoxy together I used the small wooden stick applicator to scoop and drop the epoxy into the white keys then pressed in the weights. for the black keys I dipped the weights into the epoxy, then dropped them in. i used some needle nose pliers to further push the small weights into the black keys. i would think that 1 package might cover 61 keys, but would buy an extra package to have on hand in case you need it. then possibly return the unused the package.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby resistorman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:43 pm

It seems to me that heat glue might be an issue if the keyboard was in a hot environment for a while... say a closed up car in the sun, or onstage at a festival?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:13 pm

Low temp hot melt guns work at 130ºC. I can't find a doc for the actual melt ten for the glue but it will be less than that (obviously) but I'd have thought over 100ºC. If you keyboard reaches those temps I'd be worrying about more than the glue holding the key weights in place.....
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby DGL. » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:46 pm

If I had such a keyboard I've always had the idea of using (assuming it's a compatible plastic, and that these keybeds have a well for the weight at the front)), some strips of plastic the size of the well where the weight is located fixed in with solvent adhesive that essentially melts the plastics together hopefully removing any chance of a repeat of the glue problem.

The FATAR keybed in my S2 has plastic over all the key weights hence the idea.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby resistorman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:01 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Low temp hot melt guns work at 130ºC. I can't find a doc for the actual melt ten for the glue but it will be less than that (obviously) but I'd have thought over 100ºC. If you keyboard reaches those temps I'd be worrying about more than the glue holding the key weights in place.....

Ha! You got that right! I was thinking more of it softening a bit and losing its grip over time like the original. But you know what, I don’t know anything about current glue stick technology, so I will shut up now... just wanted to play the devil’s advocate :bouncy:
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby BillB » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Got to say I am edging more towards two-part epoxy. although I wouldn't expect the JD-800 to come within the melting range of the hot glue :o , there is something reassuring about not having the glue's viability dependent on temperature.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby b3bro » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:56 pm

Just finished up with completing all the reglue-ing and assembled the keyboard pretty much back together, but triggering was off and had to take it slightly back apart because I forgot about cleaning all the key contacts. This is a reminder to do that.

Also, since this is still slightly disassembled, anyone ever changed out the battery in a Roland EP-9 digital piano? Will I lose programmed sounds if I simply remove battery and replace or do I need to go about this another way?
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby BillB » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:20 pm

B3bro - are there any programmed sounds? I thought this was just a piano with 8 preset tones. Probably the battery just saves any performances in the recorder, or maybe layer settings, but mostly you could just set them up again. I doubt there is anything to worry about. There seems to be an option in the manual to save out (or play out) any stored performances over MIDI.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby b3bro » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:44 pm

BillB wrote:B3bro - are there any programmed sounds? I thought this was just a piano with 8 preset tones. Probably the battery just saves any performances in the recorder, or maybe layer settings, but mostly you could just set them up again. I doubt there is anything to worry about. There seems to be an option in the manual to save out (or play out) any stored performances over MIDI.
Thanks for the reply. Correct, there are 8 preset tones. So I would not loose these if battery is pulled? I don't care about anything in the recorder performance being saved.
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Re: Roland: Perishing Glue on Key Weights.

Postby BillB » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:00 pm

On preset instruments, the sounds are usually stored in non-volatile ROM (read only memory) as they do not need to be altered, as compared to say, changing the filter cutoff on a synth (and storing it as a patch setting). So there should be nothing to lose.

Sometimes battery changes can scramble equipment settings, but there is usually a factory reset button combination, that brings everything back to factory state. Googling “roland e9 factory reset” just brought up a few pages all saying the same thing, so make a note of the procedure and you should be fine - if you need it.
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