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4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

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4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:48 am
by ef37a
I need to build a single speaker of 4"x15"x18" approx. I.e. deep and narrow.

It will be a sealed box and does not need to go below 120Hz or so indeed, a speaker on the "bright" side would be preferable to "woofy".

The box will also contain a tweeter but I have that, also a crossover PCB. Again got one and is a simple single L, single C jobby (2nd order?) but any advice gratefully received.

The speaker is destined for the centre of a 5.1 system and fits in the front of a large TV table/storage unit. I don't mind paying a decent wedge but as this is "entertainment" I am loathe to stump up for "pro monitor" drive units.

The driver would ideally be 4 Ohms but if cost is low enough might go for 2X 8R? The amplifier is rated down to 3 Ohms.

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:31 pm
by MarkOne
Looking around the DIY speaker youtubes, blogs and forums the usual suspects seem to be Monacor (£12-60 ish depending on model), Peerless (£70-130), Seas (£60ish) and Scanspeak (60ish and up to over £200) The American DIYers all seem to go with Dayton Audio units, but I don't see them available over here.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:57 pm
by ef37a
Thanks for your trouble Mark.

I am leaning toward either Peerless or Seas, the latter seem to find their way into some pretty up market gear.

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:15 pm
by blinddrew
A speaker maker I knew in Amsterdam used to swear by the Scanspeak stuff. This was a, ahem, number of years ago, but things haven't really moved on that much.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:20 pm
by ef37a
blinddrew wrote:A speaker maker I knew in Amsterdam used to swear by the Scanspeak stuff. This was a, ahem, number of years ago, but things haven't really moved on that much.

Thank you Drew. (I think?)

The first time I tried to send that response, seconds ago, I was told "Not connected to a network" Then the SoS page popped up again and I did it again.
I suspect this has happened to me before at SoS but nowhere else. Any comments?

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:45 pm
by ef37a
Hmm? I may have hit a bit of a snag.
I have found a likely Scan speak 100mm driver at about 80 quid, bit more than I wanted to pay but the killer is, "only supplied as pairs". I understand why, at least I HOPE it is because the company match them?

My problem is I don't want to run to £160 for one speaker in a pretty low fi system. If the pairs idea is common I might have to just settle for two cheaper 8 Ohm units.

The other option is an email, bemoaning my situation and asking if they might have a "cosmetically challenged" driver I could buy as a one off? Someone might have a "sample"? I have several guitar drivers intercepted on their way to a skip (with managerial permission!)

'Tis all just a whim after all!

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:20 pm
by Sam Spoons
ef37a wrote:Thanks for your trouble Mark.

I am leaning toward either Peerless or Seas, the latter seem to find their way into some pretty up market gear.

Dave.

The Peerless drivers in my 104aBs sound great, Wilmslow Audio did consider them equal or better than the original Kef drivers.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:29 pm
by ef37a
Thanks Sam I shall have a good search for the Peerless driver.

I built a pair of Peerless 8" kits many years ago (can it really be 50 years?!!) . Voigt 1/4 wave pipe design. I enjoyed those for some time, my first real "hi fi" speakers. Cannot think what happened to them.

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:54 pm
by blinddrew
I will be looking for a 4" driver at some point in the future but that's about project 5 on the list so there's a world of things that can change between now and me actually needing one. Otherwise I'd go halves. Sorry about that.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:06 pm
by ef37a
blinddrew wrote:I will be looking for a 4" driver at some point in the future but that's about project 5 on the list so there's a world of things that can change between now and me actually needing one. Otherwise I'd go halves. Sorry about that.

No worries! I shall not get on the project for a while and I CAN afford £160, just goes against is all!

Working through some of the ScanSpeak drivers the prices just go up and up. I know this is NOT a "Russ A" ripoff, this is top line gear but I had not appreciated the cost of some of this high end kit.

I would love to see an article (Phil?) that goes into the engineering reasons for these expensive units. Exotic materials? Again, not knocking in ANY way just very curious.

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:19 pm
by blinddrew
I think their stuff is all hand-built in Denmark still so that's going to drive up the costs no matter what the materials are.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:26 pm
by Random Guitarist
As far as I can see soundimports.eu sell single scanspeaks?

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:20 am
by Wonks
If your box will be 4" high as you stated in your first post Dave, then you won't fit a 4" driver in it. Your box will need to be the best part of 1" bigger than the driver just to fit it in, with sides strong enough to support the TV on top and not resonate too much. So can you stretch to a 5" high enclosure, or do you go to a 3" driver?

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:21 am
by ef37a
Wonks wrote:If your box will be 4" high as you stated in your first post Dave, then you won't fit a 4" driver in it. Your box will need to be the best part of 1" bigger than the driver just to fit it in, with sides strong enough to support the TV on top and not resonate too much. So can you stretch to a 5" high enclosure, or do you go to a 3" driver?

I may have confused everybody Wonks! (wish I could attach stuff!) I am actually better with metric despite my great age! So...

I have a TV unit and smack in the middle, below the TV is a hole, 130mm wide by 390mm high(and 480mm deep so a generous volume, will be stuffed). Thus I can build the box from 15mm ply and front mount a 100mm drive unit and tweeter.

But! Do not worry! I shall download data .pdfs and make dead bang sure the bugger fits before waving flexible friend!

The "hole" was full of my son's CDs and he don't live here any more!

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:54 pm
by James Perrett
I've just been using some Videoton Minimax's and was doing a search for their drivers and came across the thread at

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-w ... d-box.html

which looks relevant...

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:17 pm
by ef37a
Thanks James, some of the places I have been before and,,Grrr!

The 4R jobs are either too expensive or I have to buy 2. I might have go for the "cheapy" £30 Peerless and get two 8Rs. The basket cutaway would be useful because (Yes! Wonks!) it will be tight.

I think I should come clean and explain what I am up to? I picked up a Panasonic DVD surround sound system from a charity shop for 35 quid! As well as the main unit there were 2 1.3mtr L&R speakers, 2 wee 3" rear speakers and twin 3" centre speaker that sounds DIRE!

I am deaf and even if I could have my 42" JVC FSTV loud enough it just doesn't have the welly and distorts. "Light of my universe" complains anyway. I can understand dialogue with my aid in but music is horrible. I have a small speaker as centre behind the TV, upside down so the tweeter "pokes through" underneath.

My reasoning is that is If I make a decent 4" centre speaker with tweeter I shall get a clean sound and hopefully not need it too loud? I want 4R because that is the original centre box Z and I want to extract maximum power from what is probably quite a limited amplifier. I got sub as well BTW but am using a speaker I built yonks ago which uses a strange, low resonance 7(!) inch Philips driver.

The setup works rather well as is. I feed optical from TV to Panasonic. I expected to get TV sound through that way but was pleased to find that all my HDMI connected Freeview HDD/DVD machines are routed through as well!

Thanks for all your interest and assistance chaps. I shall do SOME'AT.

Dave.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:29 pm
by Wonks
Unfortunately it won't make poorly recorded voices any easier to understand.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:02 pm
by Sam Spoons
As I've got older (65 now) I've found dialogue harder to understand, not helped by the high level of background/incidental music and fx. How much of the centre speaker signal is dialogue and how much the other stuff? I'm not bothered about 'surround sound' but am thinking I could get 5.1 and boost the centre to help us hear the dialogue better. Obviously that won't work if, a, the program is only broadcasting stereo audio or b, the centre speaker has high levels of music/fx.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:05 pm
by Wonks
It all depends on what the person mixing the sound has done, but it should really only be speech.

Re: 4 inch bass/mid driver suggestions

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:06 pm
by Sam Spoons
That's what I thought so a speech only channel would allow me to boost the dialogue relative to the other nonsense. That would be most useful for both my wife and I.

Is it just us BTW or has the music and fx in most TV shows and films got louder relative to the dialogue over the years?