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Garden timber studio - walls

Customising, building or repairing your own gear? Need help with acoustic treatment or soundproofing? Ask away…

Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:57 am

Don't forget that any ductwork in the room between the baffle box and the connection to outside will also need to be soundproofed as well as possible, otherwise a lot of the noise taken out by the baffle box will be picked up again.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Wonks wrote:Don't forget that any ductwork in the room between the baffle box and the connection to outside will also need to be soundproofed as well as possible, otherwise a lot of the noise taken out by the baffle box will be picked up again.

Thanks Wonks.

There'll be no other ducting in the inner room; it will run in the roof cavity to the outside block wall.

John
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Urgent advice needed re plaster board!

Postby jmch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:48 am

Guys

I need your urgent advice on this please.

My builder has been putting up the first layer of my inner leaf fire board (screwed to a layer of OSB). When I got to see the progress I saw he'd left a 5mm gap not just around the perimeter as I'd expected, but around most of the board sheets. He has filled these gaps with acoustic caulk - see photos.

Will this be a big issue? There's another layer of fire board being green glued to this first layer and I can make sure there are no gaps. Plus there's the layer of OSB.

I can't decide whether these gaps will have a big impact or whether the acoustic caulk and the fact there are 3 boards on there (including the OSB) will mean it's ok.

Appreciate your thoughts on where I am.

John

https://imgur.com/a/yTEjQes


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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:56 am

Knowing what Max did to his own studio, I'd say that's wrong. The caulk is only there to seal small gaps and you are loosing a lot of mass when you add up all the 5mm gaps between boards.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:58 am

Not sure I'd entirely agree Wonks, though I don't know the density of the caulk compared to the PB but the area is relatively small, taking 6 x 4 boards the 5mm gaps add up to approx 1.5% of the covered area so, as long as all the gaps are well sealed I don't think it will make a noticeable difference. I'd still be beating the builder over the head with a tube of caulk though (he's not a drummer is he) to persuade him to do the job properly.

Just a thought, I don't think you need expansion gaps between PB sheets but could that be what he is doing?
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:35 am

No you don't need expansion gaps. If plasterboard expanded, it would bulge in the middle when fixed at the corners. Or if it contracted when cold, it would tear slots around the screws.

It's the attention to details that make the difference between a good studio and a garden shed. It doesn't take much of a gap to seriously reduce the effectiveness of the soundproofing measures. Which is why it pays to use people who really know what they are doing.

Would you accept such big gaps between the sections of a carvel built boat, Sam?
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:41 am

No argument that it's better to do the job right but, in this case, I wouldn't suggest pulling it all off and redoing it. A carvel built boat traditionally would have gaps (probably around 5mm) which would be caulked, just butt jointing the planks would leak like a sieve :D TBF the reason for that is to allow the planks to 'take up' i.e. swell and shrink as they absorb water. Barrels, OTOH can be made with butt joints which are watertight.

Any real problems with those gaps would be if the caulk had not been thoroughly applied, any loss of mass would be insignificant (though it would quickly get expensive using all that acoustic caulk).
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Appreciate your thoughts, Sam and Wonks.

We're ploughing on. No more 5mm gaps though - and definitely not on the second layer!

Somehow at the end of this this I've got to remember how to make music again......

John
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:36 pm

It's like riding a bike, you never forget (but you might fall off a bit).
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby James Perrett » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:42 pm

More worrying is that your builder appears to be using standard plasterboard rather than acoustic plasterboard.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:05 pm

James Perrett wrote:More worrying is that your builder appears to be using standard plasterboard rather than acoustic plasterboard.

Hi James

Apparently he's using 12.5mm thick fire board (with green glue between).

I read in various places that this was as good as using 'acoustic board'.

John
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm

Guys,

I am now trying to ensure my builder does exactly what I believe he should be doing. He's currently putting up the inner layer of fire board, green glued to the first layer.

The door (there's no window) and the ventilation are the next things which will be tackled. I would really appreciate all help and advice!

Regarding the door - or doors. The inner one is a heavy fire door. The frame has been built and is part of my inner leaf, decoupled from the outer. I've just ordered some rubber seal to go around the frame on all sides. It's 9mm x 5.5mm EPDM Rubber Draught Excluder which my builder has said will do the job - photo here:

https://imgur.com/Ag0QqdV

Image

There will be a heavy duty door closure to close the inner door back on itself. The door itself doesn't have a bolt or latch. I appreciate some people use pressure clasps to push the door tight to the seals, but I have also read that these aren't a good idea as it means that access from the outside could be a problem in the event of an emergency.

Can anyone recommend how I can push this door tight without obstructing emergency access from the outside?

Then there's the issue of covering gaps (sides, top and bottom) between this inner door and the solid composite door that's going on the outside leaf. This door comes with its own frame and airtight seals.

I have seen one method where a studio builder used expanding foam to hold strips of wood to the inner leaf only (with insulation behind) and then caulked the small gap from this piece of wood to the outer frame, so avoiding any direct contact from inner to outer leaf. I thought this would work for me so was going to order some of this foam.. Will this foam do the job at this point? (Everywhere else acoustic caulk has been used to fill joins and gaps.)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/soudal-geniu ... _container

Can anyone suggest any other method of closing these gaps?

Thanks all

John
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Ventilation advice please

Postby jmch » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:36 am

Hi all

Further to my last post above asking for advice on my doors set up, I've put a link at the end of this post which shows (not to scale) the proposed design for my ventilation, as well as describing the make up of my inner and outer leafs.

One duct will lead to an exterior mounted variable speed extractor fan
https://imgur.com/a/jgNb2On
and the other to a passive inlet vent.

I'm concerned I might need to increase the isolation on this set up.

Do I need to construct my silencer boxes like my inner wall - i.e. MDF and two layers of fire board green glued together? Would that help?

Thanks

https://imgur.com/15b6yO2
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:57 am

With the silencer box in the space, then you'd certainly want as much sound-absorbing material around it as the rest of the wall. You don't want sound from the room to break into the silencer.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:23 pm

Wonks wrote:With the silencer box in the space, then you'd certainly want as much sound-absorbing material around it as the rest of the wall. You don't want sound from the room to break into the silencer.

Thanks Wonks. I understand what you're saying.

I was wondering how much impact that would have given that the box has an open hole at one end for the air to get in/out.

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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:59 pm

It's only noisy at the open end (when playing loud instruments in the room) , and it can't be any noisier there than within the room. As the air moves through the silencer, the noise gets absorbed and it comes out a lot quieter than it goes in. What you don't want is noise leaking in through the sides to make the quietened air loud again. Obviously the ducted end of the extract air baffle box will have the quietest air so will be most prone to picking up noise.

If you are leaving the end of the box fully open, then I'd radius the exposed ends of the foam so that there are no sharp edges to cause more turbulence in the air, but so that they are nicely curved.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:25 pm

Wonks wrote:If you are leaving the end of the box fully open, then I'd radius the exposed ends of the foam so that there are no sharp edges to cause more turbulence in the air, but so that they are nicely curved.

Thanks Wonks.

By radius the exposed ends of the foam, do you mean as per the drawing here?

https://imgur.com/a/hKKn4aa

John
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby James Perrett » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:27 pm

jmch wrote:Can anyone recommend how I can push this door tight without obstructing emergency access from the outside?

In my current studio I just rely on the pressure exerted by the door closers. However, in my last studio I had magnetic sealing strips all around the door (a bit like fridge seals).

jmch wrote:Then there's the issue of covering gaps (sides, top and bottom) between this inner door and the solid composite door that's going on the outside leaf. This door comes with its own frame and airtight seals.
...

Can anyone suggest any other method of closing these gaps?

As long as you don't couple the two leaves together you can use whatever you like. I've just wedged some spare acoustic foam in the gap between the control room and booth while I deliberately widened the gap between the outer and inner entrance doors to allow me to put a computer in there.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby Wonks » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:35 pm

Yes, rounded corners everywhere if you can, although the entrance to the baffle box should be arranged like this:

Image

Not as you had it in the diagram:

Image

...as that first inlet area would be practically useless and the baffle box would effectively start at the gap between the first baffle and the casing, so you'd be wasting space, wasting material and losing some attenuation.
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Re: Garden timber studio - walls

Postby jmch » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:21 am

Wonks wrote:Yes, rounded corners everywhere if you can, although the entrance to the baffle box should be arranged like this:

Image

Not as you had it in the diagram:

Image

...as that first inlet area would be practically useless and the baffle box would effectively start at the gap between the first baffle and the casing, so you'd be wasting space, wasting material and losing some attenuation.

Thanks Wonks, makes sense. I'll also talk to my builder about getting two layers of fire board over the box as well as the MDF.

John
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