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Munro Egg 150 query

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Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:42 am

I've been redoing my room layout a little bit and that included positioning of my Munro Egg 150 speakers. Well, when I was checking the sound of each speaker, I found a bit of a difference between the two. So, the left sounds punchier and brighter while the right sounds a tiny bit muffled and less punchy. It's a difference I have to closely listen for, but it is there. I especially notice it on vocals and drums.

So, while I tried changing some monitoring cabling around, it didn't really change the sound. There are other cables I could try changing out, i.e. speakon cables (need to another pair), connecting directly to the amp (they're connected via a Presonus monitor station), etc. etc. But, I haven't checked those ideas out, yet. Also, I heard that Munro Egg are no more...so, I guess I can't get official help :(

Does anyone have any advice to give on how I can troubleshoot the speakers and/or amp by myself? Or, I wondered, can I use a different amplifier to the Munro Egg amplifier? Would that even help, if I could?? Anyway, I'm open to any and all ideas, folks. If I can find the issue, I'd be overjoyed as I really love this speaker system :D
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Mike Stranks » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:53 am

You can at least narrow-down the source of the problem by methodically testing every link in the monitoring chain. It's tedious and needs to be planned - even writing down every option and ticking them off one by one.

So that's test all cable links; test all outputs and inputs etc etc. Plan it carefully so that you're not inadvertently changing two variables at the same time and giving yourself a false-positive on the wrong piece of kit/cable.

If you don't do it carefully you could inadvertently spend lots of money on fixing/replacing some kit when it wasn't necessary.
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Wonks » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:14 am

There are four possibilities that I can think of (without knowing how you are set-up).

1) There is a difference in the frequency output from the speakers.

2) The speakers aren't located centrally along a wall or equidistant from major furniture/equipment, so that a closer proximity of one to a side wall or say a cupboard is increasing bass response of one compared to another and that you are getting different phase cancellations/additions from the two speakers from position alone.

3) Insufficient room treatment resulting in noticeable phase cancellations/additions at the listening spot.

4) Your hearing response is significantly different in each ear. Most people have a slight imbalance, but exposure (or repeated exposures) to loud noise on one side of your head can reduce the sensitivity of high and mid frequencies.

It's quite hard to differentiate the effects of 1, 2 and 3 as all may be happening and contributing to a certain extent, but physically swapping the speakers over after playing back some pink noise from both, then just left, then just right, speaker(s) a few times, and then repeating, should tell you whether it's mainly the speakers or the room.

If you haven't had an ear test lately, then it would be worthwhile having one done, especially if you can find somewhere that does a more frequency points than the basic test does. At least you'll know then if your hearing is balanced or not, plus it's good to keep a check on your HF loss with age.
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Mike Stranks » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Yup! I had thoughts along similar lines Wonks. :thumbup:

But I thought best check that all cables/components are 'good' before exploring those issues...
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Wonks » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:41 pm

Indeed. But as ImdurC has already moved some of the cables around to test them, they seemed less likely to be the issue. And the sound appearing to change after moving the speakers to a new location in the studio does sound rather more like a room issue rather than a cable one. But yes. a full check of cables is also called for.
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:03 pm

Wonks wrote:Indeed. But as ImdurC has already moved some of the cables around to test them, they seemed less likely to be the issue. And the sound appearing to change after moving the speakers to a new location in the studio does sound rather more like a room issue rather than a cable one. But yes. a full check of cables is also called for.

I probably should have been clearer with the "layout" comment as I haven't moved the speakers "around" the room. They've only been moved a few centimetres backwards and, if I had to guess, I'd say 2cm back and maybe 3cm inward! lol

I should also mention the following:

- I use Sonarworks and I heard a difference with Sonarworks off. I didn't want it colouring what I was hearing.
- My room is treated well, i.e. home-made bass traps, early reflection points covered, diffusers, etc. I'm in a small room, but, I've never truly noticed this problem before and I've been in this room for 7 years now :)

- As for my ears, I actually did a test where I tried listening with one ear (covering the other) at a time and moving a song between left and right speakers. Each time, I noticed the issue, no matter which ear was used. 8-)

So, I do like the idea of switching speakers over and testing that way as well as checking cables, etc. Also, I will absolutely make a checklist as I want to be quite methodical!
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:30 pm

I yesterday posted the results of my recent tests with the Sonarworks Reference 4 Measure app and a calibrated mic, which not only further flattened the frequency response of my loudspeakers (plenty of acoustic treatment in place already), but just as important, it corrected for several areas of difference between L and R channels up to 1kHz, due to my small studio not being totally symmetrical.

The improvement in stereo imaging has been remarkable, and if it's room position that has affected the OP's response, this approach might be worth exploring!

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 21#p588321

Hope it helps!


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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Wonks » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:31 pm

It could may well be Sonarworks. I did use Sonarworks 3 on my monitors until I was playing back white noise for some mic comparison testing and noticed that the sound from one speaker was very, very different to the other. I turned it off and the speakers then sounded the same, so I haven't had it back on since. Because of this I'm not willing to get the V4 software.

Also, remember that Sonarworks for speakers is designed to make the sound balanced at your listening position and taking into account cancellations and additions at that point. Moving closer in to hear the speakers will put you in a position where those cancellations and additions are different, so the speakers can then sound different.
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Martin Walker » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:37 pm

All perfectly true Wonks, but I'd already got plenty of acoustic treatment in place (10 bass traps and a large ceiling cloud) and the difference at my listening position is significant and well worth having.

If your left and right loudspeakers already sound different, and it's proven to be due to lack of room symmetry that results in these anomalies, then I'm happy to correct for that, especially when I can hear much better stereo imaging as well.

Yes, this corrected sound will change if you move your head, but in my room those differences aren't that significant, and the reason I decided to try Sonarworks Reference 4 is that I'd already missed a couple of subtle anomalies in a recent mix that I instantly spotted through my hi-fi system. With the Sonarworks corrected filter in place I can now hear those anomalies in the studio as well, so that's a result in my book, since my mixes should now travel better elsewhere :thumbup:


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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:48 pm

Thanks for the replies so far. However, something definitely needs to be clarified!

I mentioned Sonarworks, but, I said, "I heard a difference with Sonarworks off." In other words, I turned off Sonarworks to check whether it was the speaker or Sonarworks making the difference. It was not. Again, for clarity, the difference is still there with Sonarworks on as well. Hopefully, we can put that one to bed! ;)

Anyhoo, since the last post, I have now been checking some other things on the list:

1. Connected directly to interface (no change)
2. Swapped left and right speaker cables at the amp side ONLY (no change)
3. Used a cable tester to check each speaker cable (no anomalies)

Oh! :shock: Here's something I forgot about. When I was removing the cables, I was reminded that the left port on the amp has a connector which doesn't lock the cable in place. I completely forgot about this issue and had it taped down so it didn't move. Basically, with tape over it, it hasn't moved much. Hmm... I'm wondering if this could have any effect on things. I'm pretty sure I could solder in a new port if need be.

Ok, that's all for now :thumbup:
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:36 pm

I was making an edit to the previous post, but it wouldn't let me after a set time. Oh well, here's what I wrote:

I just tried something and it has yielded a curious result. I took the left speaker and placed it in a different spot and did the following:

I turned Sonarworks on (reference 4) and used the built-in mono button. I used a single channel on the amplifier (the right-channel) and played back a music track while having a listen with both cables, one at a time. There was a definite difference, but not what I thought would happen. Basically, the right cable sounded much better than the left one. I'm baffled as this feels like the opposite to the problem I talked about in the OP! I marked the cables as left and right, but, I guess it's possible I mixed them up before marking them :?:

**Tests the other speaker**

Ok, things are a little clearer now.

So, it's the same setup as before, but, I have the right-hand speaker on test this time. I played back the same music with the same back and forth as before with the cables and there's a familiar difference, i.e. the right cable sounds better than the left cable. The right is producing a nice presence in bass and better focus on vocals. The left cable is less so.

At this point, I really think I need to get a new pair of cables and test them out. On the off-chance this may be important, should I buy any old speakon cables or should I get something like a Van Damme type cable?
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:03 pm

Speaker cable simply needs to be beefy enough for the watts it is going to carry (with plenty in hand). Van Damme is good but if it's well made with reasonable wire it'll be just fine.

It seems more likely that a Speakon connector is dodgy though, take them apart, check the terminations and check the contacts where they mate with the socket. It might be something as simple as a loose terminal screw and a little light corrosion.
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:09 am

Sam Spoons wrote:It seems more likely that a Speakon connector is dodgy though, take them apart, check the terminations and check the contacts where they mate with the socket. It might be something as simple as a loose terminal screw and a little light corrosion.

Yep, that now seems to be the most likely culprit to me as well Sam, so a quick check would certainly be worth it before replacing both loudspeaker cables.

Fingers crossed that you notice something and can resolve it easily ImdurC!

You deserve a break (and I don't mean that literally ;) )


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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:33 am

Thankyou both for guiding me on checking the cable. Unfortunately, when I opened the ends of the cable, I couldn't see anything obvious. It all looked fine, so, I decided to buy some new cables. I should receive them tomorrow, so, I will update then! :thumbup:
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby ImdurC » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:27 pm

Ugh... Note to self - buy 4-pole speakon cable for the Munro 150. :headbang:

I got some replacement cables today and I didn't even think about checking they were 4-pole. They're not and the sound was dull when plugged in! lol I guess the Munro Amp is bi-wired. Live and learn.

On the upside, when I was checking the poles on the new cables to the old ones, I noticed an anomaly on the "bad" cable. Basically, the metal poles in the centre are slightly pushed back and I could see some plastic shavings hanging off. I'll need to investigate this more closely later on, but with any luck, that will be the fix I need. Although, I wish I'd seen that yesterday before ordering new cables!
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby blinddrew » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:05 pm

Sadly that is always the way. Still, hopefully that will help you pinpoint the fix. :)
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:06 pm

At least you can send them back for a refund under the distance selling regs :thumbup:
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Re: Munro Egg 150 query

Postby Wonks » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:21 pm

It may be the amp output socket isn't quite right, so has then damaged the cable connector. Which may then happen to the new connector! Hard to tell without taking everything apart.
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