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My room has at least 3 problems

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My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:53 pm

Hi all! I've done SOME treatment using bass traps in corners and edges/corners. And boadband absorbers at some spots. But there are at least 3 problems about this room: 1, There are 2 doorways, one leading to the hallway and the other leading to the kitchen. But there are no doors in any of them. In other words, open spaces between the rooms. And it's not really possible to install doors there. Is there anything i can do about that? Hanging a curtain there instead of a door or something? Anything that might help. 2, one corner is occupied by my bed. I have put a couple of bass traps in it, but higher up than i normally would, so i don't risk hitting it :lol: Would a corner bass trap in the bottom where the floor meets the wall do any good there? It would be underneath my bed tho. 3, One of my front corners is a tricky one. It's the only corner in this room that i haven't treated and you can pretty much see why in the picture i have linked to below. The left side of the corner is the kitchen, and at the right side is a window door leading to the balcony, making this corner very small. Obviously it would be troublesome to put large sized bass traps there cause i need to be able to walk in to the kitchen and balcony. But, could i put something smaller there? Or, can a bass trap be smaller and still work? maybe i'll have to make one myself from fibreglass or something? What can i do here?
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AicUKOG8nZ_Ihodti2pB5YqlnRGsfQ

Thanx in advance
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby MOF » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:38 pm

Are you sure you’ve got standing waves at Bass frequencies, having all those openings into other rooms is akin to having pretty efficient bass traps?
If you’d said your problem was complaining household members/neighbours i.e. ‘turn that noise down’ and you were asking for sound insulation advice I could have understood that. :D
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:03 pm

MOF wrote:Are you sure you’ve got standing waves at Bass frequencies, having all those openings into other rooms is akin to having pretty efficient bass traps?
If you’d said your problem was complaining household members/neighbours i.e. ‘turn that noise down’ and you were asking for sound insulation advice I could have understood that. :D

Not quite sure what you mean by the first sentence. Isn't bass frequencies a problem in all rooms untreated? But what i'm trying to achieve is to get absorbtion enough to be able to use my monitors for mixing in my room. Or should i say, i wanna get as close to that as i possibly can.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby CS70 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:28 pm

MOF is right, the doors are most likely helping you. You can think of bass frequencies as spherical waves emanating from the monitors - i.e. getting bigger (and losing a little energy the more they grow, until they fade away). Every time a part of the imaginary sphere surface touches a wall, that part it's reflected on itself.. Since bass frequency have a lot of energy, they will be able to travel quite a lot before dissipating, with multiple bounces from different walls. In a small room, you will see a lot of reflections very quickly, coming from all 3D directions, causing filtering and, at specific points in the room, resulting in more or less constant peaks or valleys of energy.

When a "growing sphere" surface hits a bass trap, the trap absorbs (or at least reduces) that bit of surface, usually more efficiently around specific low frequency. But a door will simply let that part of surface pass thru, resulting in perfect "absorption" - the energy will literally get out of the room. Any energy that re-enters will be relatively marginal with respect to what gets out.

At the extreme, if you don't have any wall you won't have any bass reflections at all (and therefore no filtering). :D

Since the waves spread into a room very quickly, the precise location of the bass traps is less important: sure, in corners they will have more or less double effect (think of the geometry of a growing spherical surface hitting a corner).. but they will absorb bass anywhere you put them, because there will be bass anywhere you put them. :)

It's actually common to put a trap at the back of each speaker, since they will absorb what they can as soon as possible, preventing a good chunk of the spherical energy to travel at all.

Something else that helps (together with traps) is to simply reduce the initial energy - simply lower the playback volume. Less initial energy = faster dissipation and a little less filtering.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby James Perrett » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:40 pm

Don't forget that you can add bass traps where the ceiling meets the walls - this space is often little used and placing traps there is just as effective as placing them in the corners.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:59 pm

And some heavy curtains across the doorways could provide some benefits.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby MOF » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:28 pm

Not quite sure what you mean by the first sentence. Isn't bass frequencies a problem in all rooms untreated? But what i'm trying to achieve is to get absorbtion enough to be able to use my monitors for mixing in my room. Or should i say, i wanna get as close to that as i possibly can.
CS70 has answered the first part. It seems to me that what is actually wrong is an overly live room acoustically i.e. flutter echoes/reverb in the mid and upper frequencies, (there may be some bass issues but bass is not the main culprit from your description).
These can be addressed by curtains, carpets, soft furnishings plus some acoustic tiles on the walls. You can do this yourself using articles in SOS for reference material or buy in some acoustic treatment packages from companies that advertise in SOS, they will take your room measurements and advise you on what package to buy and where to put them.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:55 am

James Perrett wrote:Don't forget that you can add bass traps where the ceiling meets the walls - this space is often little used and placing traps there is just as effective as placing them in the corners.
You mean the edges between ceiling and wall? I have some traps in front of me and behind me at those spots
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:01 am

blinddrew wrote:And some heavy curtains across the doorways could provide some benefits.
I do have heavy curtains made of polyester, but they are hanging in front of the windows. I have read that polyester is a good material for absorbing sound and prevent echoes etc. But on the other hand, i have also read that absorbers should be of breathing material. And mine doesn't breath.....not when i tried to breath through them by mouth to test them anyway. It's kinda confusing....what materials are good? I know cotton is supposed to be.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:10 am

MOF wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean by the first sentence. Isn't bass frequencies a problem in all rooms untreated? But what i'm trying to achieve is to get absorbtion enough to be able to use my monitors for mixing in my room. Or should i say, i wanna get as close to that as i possibly can.
CS70 has answered the first part. It seems to me that what is actually wrong is an overly live room acoustically i.e. flutter echoes/reverb in the mid and upper frequencies, (there may be some bass issues but bass is not the main culprit from your description).
These can be addressed by curtains, carpets, soft furnishings plus some acoustic tiles on the walls. You can do this yourself using articles in SOS for reference material or buy in some acoustic treatment packages from companies that advertise in SOS, they will take your room measurements and advise you on what package to buy and where to put them.
I see...It could be that the 2 front corners in THIS room arn't a big problem cause of the open doorways next to them. But what about the other corners? I mean those in the hallway and kitchen, and since there are no doors separating the rooms....or maybe those corners are not a big problem cause they're further away from me and not really in the same room?
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:18 am

CS70 wrote:MOF is right, the doors are most likely helping you. You can think of bass frequencies as spherical waves emanating from the monitors - i.e. getting bigger (and losing a little energy the more they grow, until they fade away). Every time a part of the imaginary sphere surface touches a wall, that part it's reflected on itself.. Since bass frequency have a lot of energy, they will be able to travel quite a lot before dissipating, with multiple bounces from different walls. In a small room, you will see a lot of reflections very quickly, coming from all 3D directions, causing filtering and, at specific points in the room, resulting in more or less constant peaks or valleys of energy.

When a "growing sphere" surface hits a bass trap, the trap absorbs (or at least reduces) that bit of surface, usually more efficiently around specific low frequency. But a door will simply let that part of surface pass thru, resulting in perfect "absorption" - the energy will literally get out of the room. Any energy that re-enters will be relatively marginal with respect to what gets out.

At the extreme, if you don't have any wall you won't have any bass reflections at all (and therefore no filtering). :D

Since the waves spread into a room very quickly, the precise location of the bass traps is less important: sure, in corners they will have more or less double effect (think of the geometry of a growing spherical surface hitting a corner).. but they will absorb bass anywhere you put them, because there will be bass anywhere you put them. :)

It's actually common to put a trap at the back of each speaker, since they will absorb what they can as soon as possible, preventing a good chunk of the spherical energy to travel at all.

Something else that helps (together with traps) is to simply reduce the initial energy - simply lower the playback volume. Less initial energy = faster dissipation and a little less filtering.
Cheers m8! :thumbup: Very detailed explanation. I have read before that the lower the playback volume, the less the room matters. Tho, i guess i would have to lower it alot to take the room out of the equation completely.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:33 pm

I'm less sure about the benefit's of having open doorways in the room, maybe not at bass frequencies though. The difference between my moderately well treated room with the door closed and with it open is dramatic. It is opening onto a small corridor in one direction and a fairly large office in the other, both fairly reflective environments.

Your bed will be a pretty effective bass trap, do you also have a sofa?

Any curtains hanging in the doorways will be free to move so do not need to be permeable to absorb sound energy. But the heavier the better IME. It may be possible to hang a couple of single duvets from the top of the door frame which should make a big difference
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:50 pm

Danny_79 wrote:
James Perrett wrote:Don't forget that you can add bass traps where the ceiling meets the walls - this space is often little used and placing traps there is just as effective as placing them in the corners.
You mean the edges between ceiling and wall? I have some traps in front of me and behind me at those spots

Yes, that was what I meant. If you already have traps in those positions it sounds like you are doing better with bass traps than most people.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby MOF » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:20 pm

You’re still obsessing about bass traps, which I don’t think you need.
If you’re playing a constant bass tone (try one note at a time for the bottom octaves midi C-1 to C1) does it go up and down in level appreciably as you change your position in the room? If so then by all means start adding bass absorbers. If not concentrate on damping the higher frequencies.
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Re: My room has at least 3 problems

Postby Danny_79 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:58 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I'm less sure about the benefit's of having open doorways in the room, maybe not at bass frequencies though. The difference between my moderately well treated room with the door closed and with it open is dramatic. It is opening onto a small corridor in one direction and a fairly large office in the other, both fairly reflective environments.

Your bed will be a pretty effective bass trap, do you also have a sofa?

Any curtains hanging in the doorways will be free to move so do not need to be permeable to absorb sound energy. But the heavier the better IME. It may be possible to hang a couple of single duvets from the top of the door frame which should make a big difference
If bed acts as a bass trap, then one problem less i suppose :) Yeah i have a sofa. It's occupying a floor to wall edge/corner...can't put it in a wall to wall corner even if that would be even better. Interesting idea about hanging duvets at the door frame... i guess the heavier the better applies there to, regardless of material(?) To my knowledge, they are mostly made of either cloth/fabric or cotton.
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