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Binary to triad?

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Binary to triad?

Postby Guest » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:27 pm

Old habits die hard. Can someone please tell me what triads relate to this binary chord riff. I’m sure the first is Dm 2nd inversion the next is add 4th? I think, and then I get lost.

DF DG DA CG CF.

I think I’m right in saying that the gap (no note) between those two notes needs to be kept the same and as it’s the top voice that carries the melody so that 3rd note must also be below and not inbetween?

It’s the inversions that are throwing me, is there a foolproof (for this fool anyway) method of calculating such conversions?

I’ve done this before with a Dm 2nd inversion but luckily the other binary chords were below that inversion and simply/easily translated to G, Am & F all 2nd inversion triads, because all the binary chord intervals were a third.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Temp » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:25 pm

What's a binary chord? If you're talking about 2 notes implying a chord, the term I think you're after is 'Dyad':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyad_%28music%29

With only two notes, if they don't represent a harmonic interval that implies a triad (e.g. a major/minor third), it's ambiguous. For example, if someone gives us a C and a G, we can imply a C major or C minor chord depending upon whether we provide an additional third (E) or a flat third (Eb). If they give us a C and an E, we can assume C Major (or A minor). It's all about context.

Playing the (pairs of) notes you've provided in succession, this just sounds like a Dm-C-F resolution to me (much like you'd hear at the end of many choral songs/hymns), but I may have missed the point completely here, so take that with a pinch of salt :)

Cheers.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest271017 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:50 pm

What are the bass and/ or melody lines. Two notes are intervals, with no context provided.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Chet Leeway » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:59 am

Regular SOS contributor Dave Stewart has written a couple of books that will answer this sort of question for you. Written in his typical concise but jovial style, so plenty of easily digested info plus some chuckles.

One of them explains the basics that you need to even discuss these things, and the other gives you a lot of ideas of directions you can explore, which is great if you prefer working on instinct and just want some pointers.

They're called "The Musicians Guide to Reading and Writing Music" and "The Musician's Guide to Composition, Improvisation and the Mechanics of Music". Cheap new, practically for free second hand (about £3.00 right now on the big, bad A).
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:20 pm

Chet Leeway wrote:Regular SOS contributor Dave Stewart has written a couple of books that will answer this sort of question for you...

...Cheap new, practically for free second hand (about £3.00 right now on the big, bad A).
::: goes off to update christmas list ::: :)
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:18 pm

Implies Dm, G, Dm, C, F to my rock and roll brain but it could be many things depending on what you put with it :)
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:47 pm

'ere we go, bloody Nora I wanted this sorted before the big guns start to arrive,

I'll be back, for now, food for thought, It's all in the inversion, the inversion has to carry that excellent voice leading without impairing it, we're talking the nature given aesthetic, i've done this before, there's not that many options it can't be that hard so it's pissing me off...

Dmin yes me too, maybe i'm wrongish, give me the, three maybe? triads that will preserve the quality of that voice leading, i'll maybe have to post an audio example, ther's only a few intervals/notes to chose from i sorta got or thought i had it but it don't sound quite right... dunno...
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:20 pm

If I had to build a chord sequence around that I'd probably repeat the Dm, G, Dm, C thing a couple of times then eventually resolve to C. In C, Dm, G, C is a II, V, I. The F is the IV chord so is valid.

Well, bugger me but I've just written something that could conceivably be regarded as a 'ditty' (on the universal scale of all things musical a 'ditty' sits just below the noise the studio cat makes when he want's to go out but it just scrapes in as a 'musical composition', probably just above a 'noodle'). Will tidy it up and post a link to a couple of choruses later :)
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby petev3.1 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:26 pm

LdashD wrote:'ere we go, bloody Nora I wanted this sorted before the big guns start to arrive,

I'll be back, for now, food for thought, It's all in the inversion, the inversion has to carry that excellent voice leading without impairing it, we're talking the nature given aesthetic, i've done this before, there's not that many options it can't be that hard so it's pissing me off...

Dmin yes me too, maybe i'm wrongish, give me the, three maybe? triads that will preserve the quality of that voice leading, i'll maybe have to post an audio example, ther's only a few intervals/notes to chose from i sorta got or thought i had it but it don't sound quite right... dunno...

I cannot understand this post. The triad is bound to preserve the voice-leading if it contains the voice.

The interval CG could indicate Cm, CM, F9, Am7, even a 3rd inversion of D7sus4. One would have to know the context.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:49 pm

The integrity/relationship of the melodic top line, the intervals, must be preserved, this works but is a compromise Dm, Dm sus4, Dm, C, Csus4, it should simply be a case of replacing the missing triad note below (I believe) the binary chords, but I think the distance between the ‘stretched’ intervals is too great for the intervals to have the usual expected impact. And the first two, Dm & Dm sus4 should really be 2nd inversions, as I stated it’s def the use of inversions that will leave the melody untainted.

As is usual with such matters, the C sus4 could also be read as Am 6 2nd inversion, not sure yet how this would relate to the voicings though.

We’re talking triads remember no other notes are involved, the bass and other such things are not needed, I just need to find the position of the missing notes that make up the triad, you can count the options on one hand, so something ain’t right, it’s possible it ain’t possible I suppose due possibly to the distance that elusive 3rd note will be from the other two notes.


Hmm, a while later I’ve sorted it, glad I asked cos it made me work at it, pretty sure the strength of the intervals hasn’t been compromised.

It’s, these are all triads remember,

Dm 2nd inversion
Dm 2nd inversion sus 4
Dm (F below)
C Maj (E below)
F Maj 1st inversion

You may or may not be aware that Ist inversions are consonant and 2nd are dissonant, so are treated like intervals are as regards voice-leading. They also, on a keyboard anyway, add fabulous spice, flavour and variation, I assume cos top note carries the defining note/melody…

Anyway, just done it I think it’s about right, we’ll see, it certainly seems easier to find riffs and chords, cos binary chords are too open to too many options, that third note has defined it a lot more I suppose.

Geniuses got nowt on clever little sods I reckon.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Well, for what it's worth (and tuppence would be being generous), warts and all https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5jwfw4ht7lgzd4/Ditty%20for%20L-D.mp3?dl=0

:smirk:
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:45 am

Guest

Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:34 pm

:bouncy:
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest271017 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:48 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Well, for what it's worth (and tuppence would be being generous), warts and all https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5jwfw4ht7lgzd4/Ditty%20for%20L-D.mp3?dl=0

:smirk:

Sweet! :mrgreen:

First measure had me thinking Blues Brothers Rawhide scene.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:47 am

Great movie, (the same can't be said of the sequel.....). They play both kinds, country aaaaannnd western :)
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:52 pm

Me missus came in and said;

‘What You Doing?’

‘Enjoying Meself,’ I spluttered.

‘I Can Hear That,’ she replied.


Tuppence? No way Pedro, worth ten times that, certainly a tanner anyway, err, ‘alf a sixpence then?

Couldn’t get them little chorus licks outa me ‘ead next day so don’t knock it mate, more than ‘alf-decent voice leading there man... you should consider doing it proper like, the stems are yours, free to use & abuse, up to you sir.
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Re: Binary to triad?

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:05 pm

Why thank you kind sir :) I may just do that.......
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