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Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

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Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby mikehende » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:37 pm

Hello all, I am seeking to learn how to count beats in acapellas, intros and slow music for DJing purposes to do beatmatching. I can locate the first downbeat [kickbass] in tunes so I can account for the 4 beats in a Bar.

Problem I am having is when I need to match beats of one tune together with intros, acapellas and slow tunes for when doing mashups, if anyone can help or refer me to an appropriate forum for this will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby James Perrett » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:24 pm

This is really a musicality thing - with most styles of music the one (the first beat in a bar) is usually emphasised more than anything else but this isn't always the case, especially with something like reggae where the one may be missing completely. It is probably best to take a listen to a full mix of the song that you have an acapella to and get a feel for how the vocal sits with the rest of the song. Once you understand this you can then try clapping along to the acapella to give you the beat. After a while you will probably start to hear how it fits in your head.

I don't know if it is just me but I find it really frustrating to not be able to work out where the one is in a piece of music - most songs are fine but there are just one or two that always bug me when I hear them.
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby mikehende » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:53 pm

Ok, if we can take a tune with a loooong intro like Diana Ross's "I'm coming out":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbYcte4ZEgQ

One guy on a DJ forum said the first beat is at the first word "Im" but when I asked him why, he never responded.
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby blinddrew » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:31 pm

Hmmm, not sure I understand what you're struggling with here. Are you asking how you'd keep the beat through that intro if there was solely the vocal track to work with?
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:50 pm

James Perrett wrote:This is really a musicality thing - with most styles of music the one (the first beat in a bar) is usually emphasised more than anything else but this isn't always the case, especially with something like reggae where the one may be missing completely. It is probably best to take a listen to a full mix of the song that you have an acapella to and get a feel for how the vocal sits with the rest of the song. Once you understand this you can then try clapping along to the acapella to give you the beat. After a while you will probably start to hear how it fits in your head.

I don't know if it is just me but I find it really frustrating to not be able to work out where the one is in a piece of music - most songs are fine but there are just one or two that always bug me when I hear them.

One of the funniest thing you can do when making a song is to shift the accentuated beat along the way. It gets my drummer crazy until he stops counting and just follows the music.. :)
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby James Perrett » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:50 pm

Yes - the "I'm" is on the one but she plays around with the timing for the rest of the phrase so there's nothing else that's exactly on the beat.

One way to think of it is to imagine a basic drum rhythm with the track. The bass drum would be on the one with the snare on the 3 and hi-hats on every beat. With 70's disco the hihats would be open on the 2 and 4.

This may be a good time to get some one to one tuition with someone who has an ear for these things. While I've always been fine with basic 4/4 timing, it took a workshop at Bracknell Jazz Festival to teach me how to hear more complex timings.
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby mikehende » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:11 pm

blinddrew wrote:Hmmm, not sure I understand what you're struggling with here. Are you asking how you'd keep the beat through that intro if there was solely the vocal track to work with?

Pretty much, yes. With DJ beatmatching one would usually match first downbeat [kickbass] of track A with same on the incoming track B or snare to snare beats. When trying to beatmatch especially Disco music a lot of which has nice intros and trying to hear the intro and when the first downbeat after the intro hits on time with the first downbeat of the outgoing track, that I what I am seeking to accomplish.

I personally know 3 DJ's who has the timing down with this approach but they haven't a clue about how they are able to do this, they just do it instinctively [makes me a little jealous they have this natural talent :)]. The Mixmeister software is able to do this very effectively, I have made mixes matching up perfectly timed intros with beats using their automated beatmatching software , just wish I could know how it's done?
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Re: Counting beats possible in Intros and Acapellas?

Postby Exalted Wombat » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:34 pm

If you're having trouble locating the beat in a slow or free-tempo section, maybe it doesn't NEED matching?
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