You are here

Can anyone produce music?

Arrangement, instrumentation, lyric writing, music theory, inspiration… it’s all here.

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:04 pm

You're missing my point a bit there Desmond, probably because I didn't explain it very well.
The act of creating the photo calls upon a comparable set of skills to a producer taking a beat or sample and creating music.
It's taking something that already exists but presenting in a way that no-one has seen before.
Anyone can take a 'snap', and give a full frame camera to an amateur and that's what they'll take, 9 times out of 10.
Whilst the professional will be able to take a 'photograph' with any tool they have hand.
I see music production in the same light.
Pun intended. :)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9451
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:01 pm

CS70 wrote:
Arpangel wrote:The writer of the vocal, the producer, or the software and sample companies?

Well, no more than paint manufacturers are the artist, I guess.
But anybody can buy the colors and make a painting, so anyone can create art.. and yes, anyone can produce music.

The main difference between "recognized" artists (or producers) and not is simply the willingness to invest your life into it, I guess. But anyone who creates art is an artist, so also your producer.

I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers, though I'd guess producers fall across the whole spectrum for those who make their own paint to those that paint by numbers. If he took an existing vocal recording, added chords created in software using existing samples then to me he's at the paint by numbers end of the spectrum.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11516
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Stratman57 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:35 am

I think that's the problem with samples in general, unless you use them to create a rough sketch of a piece, then actually play that piece with real instruments, then it's a bit like using the new Lego sets, in that they only produce the limited models on the box. When I was a kid, you had to make up your own constructions from the Lego bricks/wheels/lightable bricks. (I still have that Lego set, and I've used it to model a theatre set design).

I missed out on all the midi sequencing stuff, coming from a guitar band background and using a Tascam 244 Portastudio for recording, I do have an Alesis MT8, but I bought that alongside the HR16, which I used in an early incarnation of the band I'm still part of, but I could never afford the synths or other stuff you could control via midi.

I've now got MidiGuitar2 so that I can play virtual instruments for recording, but for live use I have the Boss SY-1 and a EH Mel 9 pedal, which give me great sounds, that I can record by playing the guitar. No sequencing/programming required.

Regards, Simon.
Stratman57
Regular
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:04 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers...

I'd disagree. Painting by numbers implies someone else has already worked defined the final image design, shape, colouring etc etc....

However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples. In this genre it is working more like a collage artist -- the 'producer' is in direct and full control of what the final image looks like, but it's built using pieces of other people's work and images... Check out Terry Gilliam's artwork in Monty Python as an amusing example.

Same with a producer using samples. They determine the final shape, sound, and structure of the piece.

It's definitely still an art... albeit maybe not one that moves or inspires everyone.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 26278
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby CS70 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:26 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples.

Yeah, that was my thinking as well. I drew the analogy with painting because anyone can splash color or paint canvas uniformly and then cut - like Pollock and Fontana did. Beyond the pure act of will to create, the creative input is minimal, or random. But whether or not splashes and cuts are art or rubbish is in the interpretation, and how the concept has been "sold" - at least to the small group from which we hear what's art or not.

And the opposition I also drew with skills and craftsmanship is because these are far more self-contained and do not usually need interpretation (DJs notwithstanding :D). You can be an exceptionally great guitar player without an audience. But you cannot be an artist without.

Same with music. For all the talk of "liberation" and freedom from labels and gatekeepers, these have been simply replaced with something else (playlists, forums, blogs, or simply huge marketing budgets). We all need - to a larger or lesser degree - to be told what's serious or not, what's art or not. We all are always in search of references. And we always either listen to a creche (if anything, to define us in opposition to it) or try to be part of the creche somehow - sometimes both.
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4937
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby The Red Bladder » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:47 pm

I hate to be the spoiler in all this debate about what is or is not art - but one thing is fairly certain - it ain't a commercial product!

Most sample packs are for private use only! They are watermarked and if used commercially, will require the producer (or whatever we are supposed to call him) to apply for a far, far more expensive license.

Before wasting time and effort cobbling together some doofus noises and calling that art, read the terms and conditions of sale - and do so FULLY!
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2403
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:31 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:I'd agree with Arpy above that a better paint analogy would be painting by numbers...

I'd disagree. Painting by numbers implies someone else has already worked defined the final image design, shape, colouring etc etc....

However, that's really not the case with someone creating music from samples. In this genre it is working more like a collage artist -- the 'producer' is in direct and full control of what the final image looks like, but it's built using pieces of other people's work and images... Check out Terry Gilliam's artwork in Monty Python as an amusing example.

Same with a producer using samples. They determine the final shape, sound, and structure of the piece.

It's definitely still an art... albeit maybe not one that moves or inspires everyone.

H

I think, as I said, that it covers the whole spectrum from genuinely original painting to paint by numbers. It's what the producer does with that control that places the piece within that spectrum.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11516
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:46 am

We're sort of getting into what the definition of art is, and how enjoyable it should be, which is a bit off the point I think. Is a piece of art any less worthy if it’s done entirely using machines and preprogrammed building blocks? After all, human beings made the machines, and made the building blocks, maybe this way of working is just all part of artistic evolution. We can try and hold to the romantic vision of the lonely artist slaving away on his own, with his inspiration and genius which translates into high value if we’re talking about "how art and artists should be" But how relevant is that vision and expectation in today’s world?
Something doesn’t have to be life changing or high art to be enjoyable, a lot of music these days is like a Macdonalds, or a pint of beer, throw away, and popular music has always been made that way, with little thought for future longevity.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2954
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:15 am

Then in answer to your initial question, yes. :D
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9451
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:32 am

blinddrew wrote:Then in answer to your initial question, yes. :D

Well that’s that sorted then!

:D :D
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2954
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby GilesAnt » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:21 pm

Anyone can bang a saucepan with a wooden spoon whilst whistling a tune of course - but sound is not the same as music. For me music has the attributes of art in that there is some imagination at work, or some sense of purpose.
GilesAnt
Regular
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 1:00 am
 

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:36 pm

Art is art because somebody says it is :D
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11516
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby The Red Bladder » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:18 pm

Arpangel wrote: Is a piece of art any less worthy if it’s done entirely using machines and preprogrammed building blocks?
In answer -

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 71#p641371
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2403
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Rich Hanson » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:48 pm

Absolutely. This is going to be quite close to the bone for me, but I've had a few gins, so feck it.

The last few pieces I have posted in the Self Promotion forum have all stemmed from me trying to do something to express the break up of my marriage. The intent has always been to put lyrics to it, but somehow I find it too hard. But the music is the way I try to get the pain and regret out of me, and it helps with the coping. I doubt whether this comes across, but it's been a help for my coping mechanisms.

Whether the music I produce has any long term value, I don't know, but it is an expression of how I feel.

And now I'm off to hide in a corner and pretend I never said any of that :shock:
User avatar
Rich Hanson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:00 am
Location: UK

Re: Can anyone produce music?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:47 pm

That makes perfect sense Rich, I had similar productive spells during various challenging times in my life, of which the end of my first marriage was one.

On another occasion I was pining, quite pathetically in retrospect, after a woman with whom I was friends but never more than that. Wrote some quite good music (and lyrics which will never see the light of day) at that time.

Happy New Year mate and I hope you find some comfort in being creative :thumbup:
User avatar
Eddy Deegan
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3503
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Brighton & Hove, UK
Some of my works.
Please consider supporting the SOS Forum Album project.
 

Previous