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accurate chord charts

Postby MadManDan » Fri May 22, 2020 11:25 pm

Hi all. Hope everyone's safe.

My primary instrument is keys. I'm looking to learn pieces from 70s 80s pop and r and b, basically "yacht rock" :lol: Any recommendations for decent charts, by the song? Don't need entire books. I can follow chord names, but don't fluently read staff.

I'll pay, it is worth it. There are so many really horribly charted interpretations online, "Free" as in "you get what you pay for." Tired of that.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby ef37a » Sat May 23, 2020 12:50 am

MadManDan wrote:Hi all. Hope everyone's safe.

My primary instrument is keys. I'm looking to learn pieces from 70s 80s pop and r and b, basically "yacht rock" :lol: Any recommendations for decent charts, by the song? Don't need entire books. I can follow chord names, but don't fluently read staff.

I'll pay, it is worth it. There are so many really horribly charted interpretations online, "Free" as in "you get what you pay for." Tired of that.

When I was in a 'group' in the sixties as soon as the latest Beatles or other Liverpool band's hit came out I was down to the music shop in town to buy the 'piano copy'. Are they not published any more?

Dave.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby MadManDan » Sat May 23, 2020 6:07 am

me too back in the 80s and 90s. I mean, now everything is online. I just want authoratative, not some bugger's half assed interpretations. If there's a site that only gets straight from the publishers, that might work. Might be most like those music store books
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby innerchord » Sat May 23, 2020 6:31 am

Are the Fake Book series from Hal Leonard the sort of thing? They're very affordable, and can be obtained as downloads if that's preferable.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby shufflebeat » Sat May 23, 2020 8:36 am

If simple chord names are enough then check out the iReal pro app on Android and iOS. The forumites who share files tend, in my experience, to be a little more conscientious in their efforts.

The app is also really well designed for putting sheets together and has a pretty useful playback facility.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat May 23, 2020 10:17 am

ef37a wrote:When I was in a 'group' in the sixties as soon as the latest Beatles or other Liverpool band's hit came out I was down to the music shop in town to buy the 'piano copy'. Are they not published any more?

Dave.

[fake Yorkshire accent]Luxury! when I were a lad we 'ad to make our own piano copies[/fake Yorkshire accent]

They were often difficult for us guitarists to interpret as they were, to all intents and purposes, a solo piano arrangement of a song which may have several guitars (but often no actual piano) on the original. Particularly when you got to some Beatles stuff and similar where extended chords were shared by two or more guitars and may be unplayable on a single instrument.

I have iReal Pro and, yes it is pretty good, much better than the efforts on most of the 'chordfinder.com' type sites. But it's usually pretty easy to find and correct mistakes in a dodgy chart (and often easier than working the whole thing out from scratch and typing it into the computer).

You can still get caught out though, even in these days of YouTube, I spent an inordanent amount of time learning "Romeo & Juliet" in standard tuning, played it for years before discovering MK player it in (IIRC) Open G..... :oops:
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby BJG145 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:54 am

MadManDan wrote:There are so many really horribly charted interpretations online

Idiots, spamming their failed transcriptions everywhere. :protest:

I've found the only way to get the right chords is to do it yourself.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby ef37a » Sat May 23, 2020 11:02 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
ef37a wrote:When I was in a 'group' in the sixties as soon as the latest Beatles or other Liverpool band's hit came out I was down to the music shop in town to buy the 'piano copy'. Are they not published any more?

Dave.

[fake Yorkshire accent]Luxury! when I were a lad we 'ad to make our own piano copies[/fake Yorkshire accent]

They were often difficult for us guitarists to interpret as they were, to all intents and purposes, a solo piano arrangement of a song which may have several guitars (but often no actual piano) on the original. Particularly when you got to some Beatles stuff and similar where extended chords were shared by two or more guitars and may be unplayable on a single instrument.

I have iReal Pro and, yes it is pretty good, much better than the efforts on most of the 'chordfinder.com' type sites. But it's usually pretty easy to find and correct mistakes in a dodgy chart (and often easier than working the whole thing out from scratch and typing it into the computer).

You can still get caught out though, even in these days of YouTube, I spent an inordanent amount of time learning "Romeo & Juliet" in standard tuning, played it for years before discovering MK player it in (IIRC) Open G..... :oops:

Oh! IIRC the piano copies I bought were chords and fills to accompany a singer(s)
None of us could read the dots but we could play the chords (some of them!) Trouble was the copy was almost always in a key like Eflat that is wimpish on guitar and the singer could not manage anyway.

It therefore fell to me, the bass player and the only one with a smattering of school notation to transcribe them into a singable key. I did this by simply shifting Eflat say to G and all the other chords pro-rata. I was probably being too simplistic but the punters never noticed! Other, similar lacks of chops? Could never play Maccer's bass lines to All My Lovin AND sing so that was a busk!

My son, who has been to 'yoonivrersity' told me that chords often don't matter too much so long as things get 'resolved'?

BTW The Searcher's Needles & Pins drove us mad! After the second chorus the singer (who learned by ear) was all over the shop. Took us weeks before we found out there were two key shifts in the song! NOT in the piano copy tho'but.

Dave.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat May 23, 2020 12:04 pm

ef37a wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:
ef37a wrote:When I was in a 'group' in the sixties as soon as the latest Beatles or other Liverpool band's hit came out I was down to the music shop in town to buy the 'piano copy'. Are they not published any more?

Dave.

[fake Yorkshire accent]Luxury! when I were a lad we 'ad to make our own piano copies[/fake Yorkshire accent]

Oh! IIRC the piano copies I bought were chords and fills to accompany a singer(s)

Yes, my bad, you are right they were accompaniment arrangements. Sort of the 50's/60's equivalent of Karaoke tracks......

None of us could read the dots but we could play the chords (some of them!) Trouble was the copy was almost always in a key like Eflat that is wimpish on guitar and the singer could not manage anyway.

It therefore fell to me, the bass player and the only one with a smattering of school notation to transcribe them into a singable key. I did this by simply shifting Eflat say to G and all the other chords pro-rata. I was probably being too simplistic but the punters never noticed! Other, similar lacks of chops? Could never play Maccer's bass lines to All My Lovin AND sing so that was a busk!

My son, who has been to 'yoonivrersity' told me that chords often don't matter too much so long as things get 'resolved'?

BTW The Searcher's Needles & Pins drove us mad! After the second chorus the singer (who learned by ear) was all over the shop. Took us weeks before we found out there were two key shifts in the song! NOT in the piano copy tho'but.

Dave.

The Eb/Bb thing was so that horn players were not in 'difficult' keys, like you say, pigs to play on guitar (well they were back then, these days I'd just call it Jazz) and rarely the original key making any riff with open strings completely unplayable.

I can remember learning a Beatles tune and 'correcting' a chord or odd length bar :oops: (say a ¾ bar in a 4/4 tune)
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby BigRedX » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm

Also those sheet music books never took into account the fact that the recordings might have been vari-speeded to achieve the desired tempo for the master, or that the band might have tuned up or down for effect or to suit the singer's vocal range.

I quickly learnt to transpose all those songs in Eb up to E and those in Bb down to A and suddenly all the guitar chords were simple to play!
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby wireman » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:37 pm

Quite often the chord charts were just wrong, or the arrangement didn't properly capture the song or was too simple/hard.

It has been decades since I was last looking at piano/vocal arrangements for something to take home.

Sometimes you got something worth having, if I recall correctly I was partial to these non-classical pieces (for piano)...

Bridge Over Troubled Water
Send in the Clowns
Cavatina

I probably still have them somewhere.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:53 pm

When somebody eventually took the time to write it I bought "The Beatles Complete Scores" which I believe is accurate. It was expensive but a must have for a guitar player who grew up listening to the Beatles (and who's first ever LP was "A Hard Days Night").
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby CS70 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:48 am

MadManDan wrote:Hi all. Hope everyone's safe.

My primary instrument is keys. I'm looking to learn pieces from 70s 80s pop and r and b, basically "yacht rock" :lol: Any recommendations for decent charts, by the song? Don't need entire books. I can follow chord names, but don't fluently read staff.

I'll pay, it is worth it. There are so many really horribly charted interpretations online, "Free" as in "you get what you pay for." Tired of that.

Well, my experience with guitar is that for pop stuff, the basic chords are easy to identify but it's the voicing you want, and I'v never seen any "official" score ever mentioning them (maybe they write them in the staff, but the chords written on top are always just the name and the bog standard fingering). And the voicings make everything on the guitar.

So what I do if I want to learn a song is that I just listen to the song, figure out the basic progressions, then the specific voicing of the chords. Slow but effective.. until some months pass and I've forgotten the voicings :) (my personal notes "use shape from IV fret 3d string" feel always enough when I have the position in my hands and are invariably insufficient when I no longer do).

Maybe it's different for keys.
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Re: accurate chord charts

Postby GilesAnt » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:27 pm

Totally agree with CS70. Voicing is crucial for keyboards as much as for guitar. It's the voicing that will give the specific sound of the chord, and the combinations of voicings, and voice leading will make for a distinctive harmonic progression. As soon as your competence allows it, try and break free from the standard version of chords that we all learn as beginners.

Unless you get very lucky with a published version you are probably going to have to work at least some of this out for yourself, but the more you do it, the more your ears start to recognize patterns and sounds.
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