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Automatic music : is it possible ?

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Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby music-engine » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:18 am

Greetings, everyone,
I have been studying music and the mathematical relationships between chords and musical scales for some years now.
I have conceived a mathematical theory that studies the links between the world of harmony and that of melody.

I wanted to share with you a website where I put some results of my research:

http://www.music-engine.net/

I also created a youtube channel where you can find some videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUhoF8 ... wBQ/videos

Two aspects can be seen: that of musical transformations, and that of automatic musical generation.

I would like to know what you think about these results. In some time I would like to put online the software that generates this music.

A cordial greeting to all
Emanuele
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:45 am

Hello Emanuele, welcome to the forums :)

I've run your post through online translation, as English is primarily used here and more people will read it.

music-engine (translated) wrote:I wanted to share with you a website where I put some results of my research.

I also created a youtube channel where some videos are found.

Two aspects can be seen: that of musical transformations, and that of automatic musical generation.

I'd like to know what you think of these results. In some time I would like to put online the software that generates these music.

A cordial greeting to all
Emanuele

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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby music-engine » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:14 am

Of course !
Italian is only spoken in Italy ;-)
I don't know if this forum deals with specific issues related to music computing.
For the moment I would like to know if my music seems too artificial.
It's not easy to have a good sound because the starting point of this music is the midi format. I should use more realistic plugins. But what I'm wondering is the feeling that this automatic music gives.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:14 pm

Hi Emanuele.

I've not looked at the research link but have watched some of the videos, partly because time is short and also because I think to answer the question, "is this music?" I would want to avoid being led by the theory but instead be led by my own initial observations.

I can see that the overall sound is quite integrated, all elements fit together and structure, melodic themes and dynamic expression follow logical paths and as a expression of the emergent patterns in music it is good. However, if music is to be an abstract expression of some human reality then it lacks the human filter that implies the reality.

I was struck by the graphics that accompany the "Three Flutes" piece. Within the patterns I could imagine pyramids, streams, trees and diagrams of various aspects of life. It was clear though that these were not deliberately implied in the graphic, how could they be? Instead they are a projection of my own based on my experience and imagination.

The aspect of music that I value most is the capacity to translate human experience into musical form and for that to translate back to the listener's experience with the meaning (however abstract) intact. My experience of this audio was similar to that of the graphics. It certainly speaks the language of music but what it says has no meaning.

I am primarily interested in folk, jazz and traditional music and this should be taken into account when assessing my interpretation of the work.

Thanks for the links.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby MOF » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:02 pm

I’ve listened to the first three tracks on YT (Blue Bosss and several Softly...) and the Rhodes one further down. They sound very Jazzy to me but not very memorable. Sorry.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby music-engine » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:52 pm

Thank you so much for your opinion, which is very important to me.
What you're saying is so true. Music is nothing more than the result of human experience that manifests itself through musical language.
How can language alone speak without human experience?

But you have to consider that the computer could never compose on its own, and even in automatic production you have to consider the human intervention in various forms (choice of harmony and melody, choice of the rhythmic grid...).

Then there is all the choice that is still human. This is also what happens when we pick up a stone on the ground that we like. The fact of choosing it is already a human gesture.

I like this music, but it's clear that I'm too involved.
Then thank you again for your sincere opinion.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:26 pm

music-engine wrote:Then there is all the choice that is still human. This is also what happens when we pick up a stone on the ground that we like. The fact of choosing it is already a human gesture.

Good example but there are a lot of stones which don't "represent" anything which makes it a function of probability rather than cause/effect.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby music-engine » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm

I believe that the creative process always needs an automatism, even for the sole reason of having a musical instrument.
The whole problem is to understand which is the space of creativity that is left to the human being.
This music is in many ways automatic, but there are two aspects that are managed by man: the rhythm, and the search for harmony and relative scales. It is therefore a space that still allows the composer to express himself.
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:14 pm

I've followed this thread with interest from the beginning, I listened to a couple of the examples on the YT channel and I was impressed. And, I have given it much thought and consideration....... but when I ask myself the question "is automatic music possible?" I still find myself answering a resounding "no!".

Much music is formulaic, 90% of 'pop music' for starters, and a huge amount of classical music through the ages. Even Jazz has rules* but it all has one unique characteristic that computer generated 'music' can't have, somebody, a human, made conscious artistic decisions during the process of creating it.

If you liken it to a jazz solo, the formula, i.e. the changes, are fixed but the soloist is at liberty to play over those changes in a huge variety of ways. What differentiates it from computer generated music is that those choices are made, the player doesn't randomly play something that fits within those rules but choses every note they play.

* Avante garde purports to have no rules but the players still have to make conscious decisions about which note to play (or noise to make). It doesn't light my candle and I'd dispute whether it actually qualifies as 'music' but, like that famous bloke whose name escapes me just now "I'll defend to to my last guitar string their right to make those noises"
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Re: Automatic music : is it possible ?

Postby music-engine » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm

Thank you very much for those interesting considerations.
The first time I produced music automatically I was excited. I had written some code in php, and a midi file came up. I myself didn't know what that music would be like, but it had to be an expression of what my code had theorized.
So I think the classical gesture of the musician is not necessarily the only possible creative gesture. The human mind is great and the creative act can now be given to powerful instruments that make millions of calculations to arrive at a result that can also be considered musically acceptable.
But of course that's my opinion.
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