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recommendations sought for small PA..

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recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Tue May 15, 2018 2:09 am

The JBL Eon 1 system (pair) I lease has ended the term so I wanted to look at an alternative new system.

Thinking I might go back to a more traditional setup as I am getting more club/pub gigs and I need a bit more “grunt”.

Thinking of two 12’s and a 12 sub, unless a 15 sub can be found that loads as easy as the 12, and can give a similar (not the same, but similar) results.

I play as a solo, with live keys and left hand bass using my own backing tracks, Mostly drums/guitars and vocals.

I was thinking 12’s as they will still give me some decent bottom when used alone at smaller venues. But I have read there are some 10’s that are not too shabby at the bottom end.

Budget is up to about $3500.

Perhaps I will give QSC’s a miss as I find them a bit shrill/piercing at higher volumes.

Needless to say, any system needs to be able to handle acoustic piano really well.

BUT, if there are systems comprising a pair of 10’s and a 12 sub then that’s even better purely from a transport/lugging p.o.v.!

Thanks
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue May 15, 2018 8:23 am

Yamaha DXR10s are great, I bought a new EV ZXA1 12" sub last year but find myself leaving it at home in favour of the old school EV sBA 750 which sounds considerably better. The ZXA1 sounds good and can give plenty of level but just doesn't sound as good as the sBA750.
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Tue May 15, 2018 3:44 pm

cool, thanks Sam....that give me a starting point. Had not thought of the EV at all. At 45kg it is a bit over the weight I'd prefer but the specs look ok... relatively low SPL though @128. Still, worth checking out.
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Tue May 15, 2018 4:07 pm

just checked out some EV gear - The ELX200 series look tasty - good specs too, and some pretty positive reviews. Nice weight.

Another one I saw is the Evolve 50 set - same sort of deal as the Eon 1, but absolutely eats the Eon in terms of power and sound projection, going on the specs. And I do like the ease of transport and setup of these type of systems.

I was only looking at a more "traditional" setup as I thought it would provide more "grunt" but that Evolve system does look good!

Thanks again for the EV cue...up til that I was really only looking at Yamaha and JBL (RCF's are too exxy for me!)
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue May 15, 2018 4:49 pm

TBH if I was buying again and on a budget I'd buy the full rig from Yamaha's DXR range.

That old EV sub has platy of grunt despite it's slightly less than impressive max SPL. I rte ally do believe they don't make like that anymore :thumbup: They were very expensive back in the day, it was old when I bought it and it has had the speaker reckoned but only because the glue on the coil suspension had dried up and failed. Of course it helps that it's amp is a real 750 watts RMS unlike most modern kit (Yamaha included) that quote 'continuous' and 'peak' (or the even more meaningless 'dynamic' in the case of Yamaha) figures which, with no standard measurement system, they can massage to their hearts content. Even max SPL is only partially useful as they often don't quote distortion figures... :headbang:
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Tue May 15, 2018 6:07 pm

haha, yeah manufacturers figures are tough to get a handle on these days!

Thing that appealed to me re the Evolve set was that the spl was about + 12 on the Eon system!

I will check the Yammie system too, although my initial research showed them to be a tad on the heavy side. Still worth a look though. Thanks
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue May 15, 2018 11:48 pm

The Evolve 50 is expensive compared to the DXR10s and well down on power. A single DXS15 and a couple of DXR10s will cost about the same as a single Evolve 50 but will go significantly louder. OTOH the Evolve rig is nice and light though and I don't think you are looking for max SPL as a main criteria. Time to go and have a listen?
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Wed May 16, 2018 2:14 am

haha, yeah if I could...I'm 360 kilometers from the nearest store!! So need to rely a lot on reviews, forums like these and up to a point the guys in the shop.

FWIW, I decided on a pair of EV EKX200 12's and a pair of the matching 12's subs. After discussing it with the sales guys that system gave me the most options for the various venues I play at....he also suggested that using the 12's for a gig would work, just trim out the mids a bit.

I am used to these tower speakers giving a good sound level across the room and not just the front tables, where I have found traditional speakers, to get to the folks at the back are way too loud up front. But this guy assure me I could get the same result by simply droppig the mids a bit?? He reckoned that was the EQ secret behind the Bose L1 series.
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Wed May 16, 2018 2:15 am

pax-eterna wrote:haha, yeah if I could...I'm 360 kilometers from the nearest store!! So need to rely a lot on reviews, forums like these and up to a point the guys in the shop.

FWIW, I decided on a pair of EV ELX 200 12's and a pair of the matching 12's subs. After discussing it with the sales guys that system gave me the most options for the various venues I play at....he also suggested that using the 12's for a gig would work, just trim out the mids a bit.

I am used to these tower speakers giving a good sound level across the room and not just the front tables, where I have found traditional speakers, to get to the folks at the back are way too loud up front. But this guy assure me I could get the same result by simply droppig the mids a bit?? He reckoned that was the EQ secret behind the Bose L1 series.
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed May 16, 2018 8:45 am

I'm not sure about 'dropping the mids a bit' myself, there's a lot more to it than that. The 'secret' behind the Bose is the dispersion/projection/or whatever, pattern of the speakers (as with any 'line array') much of which comes from their configuration.

In a perfect world, line array speakers would project a cylindrical wave front and, by extension, a point source speaker (a rough approximation of your new 12" boxes) would project a spherical wavefront. Meaning that the signal level from a perfect point source falls by 6dB every time the distance doubles and that from a perfect LA by only 3dB (inverse square law). In practice both types are far from perfect and, if you add that the effect is frequency dependent 'PS' boxes direct the HF in a narrow beam and the LF in a sphere and'LA' rigs direct the HF in a wider, flatter beam and fall off less with distance but their associated subs still project in a sphere.

On large Line Arrays, as seen at stadium gigs, cleaver tricks like frequency and level/volume shading address the issues (and the bigger a LA the lower the frequency at which the wavefront remains cylindrical). A little portable system only a couple of feet tall can only gain a certain amount of the effect and only at higher frequencies. So the Bose L1 will be better at directing sound where you want it than a QSCV K12 but will only get near the theoretical cylindrical wavefront at pretty high frequencies. I have used a Bose L1 and for acoustic music it was fantastic but not powerful enough for rock/pop etc in an average sized room.

If you're interested there's an excellent article here :-https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/line-arrays-explained
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby pax-eterna » Wed May 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Cool, thanks Sam!
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Re: recommendations sought for small PA..

Postby DanR » Mon May 21, 2018 11:04 pm

Hi
Not sure if you’re sorted with the PA but I can recommend RCF HD10a x2 and RCF 702as ii x2 for an ultra compact, light and great sounding PA.
The subs are so easy to transport that two can be used all the time which does away with the need for a speaker stand.
The system belongs to our bass player but I have two DXR10s for keys monitoring and
2x RCF HD12s and 2x RCF 905as subs as our main PA.
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