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SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Another good shout Bob thanks.

Now I must admit, I’m a bit of a freak when it comes to cables. I think it comes from my dad who always had a tendency to over react to things.

The upshot is I’m always very anxious that the wires in a cable will get damaged and there will be an intermittent fault.

It drives me absolutely mad when I see people treating cables like bits of rope.

Anyway...when people walk on the rubber mats, don’t the cables get squished against the ground underneath? With a lot of people walking about could that do some damage?

Been looking at cable protector conduit.
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Tue May 08, 2018 8:01 am

Well I did a test Friday with the 2 MC930s and just four 5 year olds singing and it worked even better than anticipated. The sound was clear and loud even with a distance of a couple of meters to the mics.

With a whole group of 25 odd the sound should be even louder I guess.

I think now the most complicated part is going to be running the cables and positioning speakers and stands so they don’t knocked over.
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Bob Bickerton » Tue May 08, 2018 11:43 am

That's all good news.

In terms of cable management you may want to check out this site: https://www.theramppeople.co.uk/cable-protectors/rubber-cable-protectors

Something like this could help:

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And black and yellow hazard tape on speaker legs can help people avoid them.

Bob
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 pm

I took delivery of 36M of that rubber conduit last week-thanks for the tip Bob!

On Ancar they noté I saw a news report on the Grenfel Tower commémorations and saw this set up:

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Are those condensors or dynamics?

Image

Great (and expensive!) way to avoid the cable problem anyway!
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:58 pm

Without identifying the specific model they could be either capacitor or dynamic, cardioid or supercardioid depending on the capsule (which on decent wireless mics are interchangeable and available on all of the above. Most vocal mics though are cardioid dynamics (omni/cardioid/supercardioid refers to the polar (pickup) pattern and capacitor/dynamic the transducer type).
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby James Perrett » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:57 pm

Driller wrote:On Ancar they noté I saw a news report on the Grenfel Tower commémorations and saw this set up:

Not sure I'd use that as an example of good practice although, as you say, it solves the cable problem and would be quick to set up and take down.
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:49 pm

Thanks for your thoughts guys, I didn’t notice so much time had gone by since I posted last.

Well it’s the big day Friday and I just wanted to say another big thank you for all the help here. One final question: I have a Mixwizard WZ4 wired up in an L rack in the rehearsal room and a Yamaha MG12XU in a flight case ready to go.

Would you go for the nice pres on the WZ4 and haul it out or is the easy option of the MG12 good enough for this in your view?
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:58 pm

Easy option every time! You're not going to notice the difference in mic pres in this kind of environment.
Good luck :)
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:52 pm

I was hoping you’d say that :D

Thanks again for everything!
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:58 pm

Last minute panicking!

I'm going to use 30M long XLR cables in that rubber protector I bought but then realised I have a 10M XLR/jack snake. This doesn't really fit in the rubber protector but I also bought 10m of 1M wide rubber matting.

1) If I cover the snake with the matting will it be protected ok if people walk on it?
2) The matting is 1M wide so I'm going to cut it lengthways-how wide does it need to be to not get folded over? 50 cm? 30cm?

BTW the matting is only 3mm thick (didn't realise how light this would be), should have got 4mm or more.

Many thanks for last minute help! (I'm definitely panicking a bit)
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:14 pm

I would be more worried about a trip hazard than protection (damaged cable £10, Damaged punter £10,000?). Thin rubber matting will not prevent a trip hazard with multicore, (been there and worn the teeshirt) though it's better with discrete cables which can be taped downside by side then covered. Rubber profile is better but doesn't always remove the aforesaid trip hazard.
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:28 am

Cheers Sam. In that case maybe I could tape the snake next to a piece of the conduit I bought and put the mat over both of them. I would never have there was so much extra stuff to contend with above and beyond the electronics side!
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Driller » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:51 pm

Well, did the show last night and ....

.....it was a complete success! :bouncy:

I hav to admit I was bricking it a bit setting the cables and stands up, not knowing (in my paranoid state) if any sound was going to come out.

I can't tell you what a relief it was when I brought the faders up and got a signal :lol:

The Beyerdynamic MC-930s were just amazing-really sensitive (39mV if I remember correctly) and loads of gain before feedback. I positioned them at 1/3 and 2/3 above the stage area and pointing into the middle of the groups (from front to back). Everyone was amazed and so happy because for the first time in all the years of this end of year show the parents could actually hear what the kids were singing.

The Alto TS308s were also amazing. Wow, what incredible bang you get for your buck with these! Big beefy sound, loads of bass and so small that they didn't block any of the view to the stage area. Really light and easy to carry too.

I used all 36 meters of rubber conduit I got from TheRampPeople.com and the roll of 10m X1m rubber matting that I bought did the job wonderfully. I didn't cut it in the end, just rolled it out between the desk area and the front of stage and put all the cables under it.

Everyone was so impressed and grateful for the sound, they all came by afterwards and thanked me, teachers and parents alike.

So many, many, many thanks to all of you who posted here for your help and suggestions of what to do and what to buy and especially Hugh, Bob Bickerton, Sam Spoons and Blind Drew for your multiple helpful posts.

Next up the Christmas Fete with more singing and dancing!
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Well done, soundies are usually the unsung heroes so it's nice when they get the recognition they deserve. :thumbup:
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:13 pm

Excellent job! :thumbup:
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Re: SDC (Cardioid) or Shotguns on Vocal Group

Postby Bob Bickerton » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:27 pm

That’s great news. Well done.

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