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live sound - mono or stereo?

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Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:13 am
by Scramble
I find my lovely stereo effects disappear even in the rehearsal room as soon as the other guys start playing, so I've given up bothering with stereo live.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:40 am
by Sam Spoons
If the sweet spot is 10% of the width/depth of the arena then only 1% of the audience can hear it........ Phil Spector was right all along!

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:14 am
by Jorge
I have had no problem running dual mono in most of the small venues we play in. Dual mono (each channel strip panned center and L and R outs feed L and R FOH speaker) and summed mono both have worked fine. Clubs and other venues with less than ideal acoustics produce enough sound artifacts and reflections that the stereo effect is lost for most of the audience.

Where I have run into problems is between-sets DJing when I play a CD that was not mixed to sound good in both mono and stereo. I have found many modern CDs sound much better in stereo than when summed to mono, whether the summing is at the mixer (eg, MixWiz quality) level or the DSP level. In mono, often the clarity of individual instruments is lost, sometimes unevenness in frequency response becomes apparent and some instruments and parts disappear or get lost in the mix. Sometimes the L and R channels are similar enough that I can just run stereo signal for the CD playback and differences in levels of specific instruments are fairly subtle, but sometimes that is not the case and people closer to the L speaker hear a different overall mix than people closer to the R speaker.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:14 am
by michael forrest
Just thinking out loud here. The same thing I always thought though, even 30 years ago when it comes to live stereo or mono. NO ONE ever wanted to run sound in stereo back then, we would argue over and over, which always made me wonder how exactly my home stereo sounded really good with EXACTLY the same separation....A statement that seemed to confuse them....weird. Turns out, most pro bands run in stereo these days on some level. It sounds great if mixed right. The home stereo thing is pretty obvious, yet somehow escapes basic thinking/reasoning over and over, and still does...... The pro's are in stereo, no matter the venue size these days. Ask Denny Mack, the king of sound. :headbang:

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:35 am
by BJG145
michael forrest wrote:The same thing I always thought though, even 30 years ago

...about when this thread started then.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 am
by Mike Stranks
The pro's are in stereo, no matter the venue size these days.

Really? And your evidence is...?

... and who is Denny Mack?

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:55 am
by Hugh Robjohns

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:38 am
by Wonks
michael forrest wrote:J...which always made me wonder how exactly my home stereo sounded really good with EXACTLY the same separation...

Fine if you are sitting halfway between the speakers some distance back as home stereo systems are designed to be listened to. But a far less encompassing experience if you are sitting right by one speaker that's 50 feet away from the other and listening at a high volume to say a Beatles album with very distinct left/right panning.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:57 am
by Hugh Robjohns
He must have a bloomin' big lounge if his stereo hi-fi setup is 'EXACTLY' the same as a live sound rig... :lol:

Sweeping generalisations aren't very helpful here. Some systems are run entirely in mono, some with some elements in stereo... it all depends on the situation and instrumentation.

I don't do live sound very often, but when I do I tend to work in mono most of the time unless there's a specific reason for panning a source or using a stereo spread. For example, I like to run a Leslie effect with some stereo width if possible as it can sound very flat in mono. But a wide stereo panning effect on an electric piano can easily become distracting...

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:09 am
by Sam Spoons
I'm not on Linkdein, so who is Denny Mack (The King Of Sound)?

I pretty much always run a PA in dual mono and rarely pan anything but I'm very much at the 'grass roots' end of the market.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:24 am
by Hugh Robjohns
Sam Spoons wrote:I'm not on Linkdein, so who is Denny Mack (The King Of Sound)?

Denny Mack
Production Manager / MME World Classic Rockers
Orange County, California Area

The World Classic Rockers
Production Manager / MME
Nov 2003 – Present
The World Classic Rockers (www.wcr.com), is an all star rock and roll band featuring former members of Steppenwolf, Santana, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kansas, Journey and Boston.

The Crazy Horse Saloon
Production Manager
Oct 1992 – Nov 2010
The Crazy Horse garnered seven awards from the Academy of Country Music (ACM) and one SRO award from The Country Music Association (CMA) as the # 1 night club in the nation.

Mel Torme' / Johnny Lee / Zaca Creek
Audio Engineer / Production Manager
Jun 1986 – Dec 1998
Mel Tormé, Peter Nero and Leslie Uggams, MME: "The Great Gershwin Tour"​.

...

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:27 am
by Wonks
Well, Hugh's the King of Sound on Sound. :D

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:28 am
by Hugh Robjohns
Only a Prince, or maybe a gallant Knight... PW is The King! :D

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:37 am
by blinddrew
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:I'm not on Linkdein, so who is Denny Mack (The King Of Sound)?

Denny Mack
Production Manager / MME World Classic Rockers
Orange County, California Area

The World Classic Rockers
Production Manager / MME
Nov 2003 – Present
The World Classic Rockers (http://www.wcr.com), is an all star rock and roll band featuring former members of Steppenwolf, Santana, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kansas, Journey and Boston.

The Crazy Horse Saloon
Production Manager
Oct 1992 – Nov 2010
The Crazy Horse garnered seven awards from the Academy of Country Music (ACM) and one SRO award from The Country Music Association (CMA) as the # 1 night club in the nation.

Mel Torme' / Johnny Lee / Zaca Creek
Audio Engineer / Production Manager
Jun 1986 – Dec 1998
Mel Tormé, Peter Nero and Leslie Uggams, MME: "The Great Gershwin Tour"​.

...
To be fair, that is quite a resumé...

I think the only time I've ever done live sound in stereo was when doing a gig for three singing guitarists. Adding a bit of L and R panning gave a little bit of separation and helped show who was playing what. Well, it did for the central third of the audience, not sure how much difference it made to the rest. :eh:

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:51 am
by Wonks
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Only a Prince, or maybe a gallant Knight... PW is The King! :D

But it doesn't work in the context of the thread (and he's never on the forums and your reviews are betterer). Go on, just run with it for the moment, Your Majesty. :P

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 pm
by Mike Stranks
Wonks wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Only a Prince, or maybe a gallant Knight... PW is The King! :D

But it doesn't work in the context of the thread (and he's never on the forums and your reviews are betterer). Go on, just run with it for the moment, Your Majesty. :P

:thumbup:

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:04 pm
by Sam Spoons
blinddrew wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:I'm not on Linkdein, so who is Denny Mack (The King Of Sound)?

Denny Mack
Production Manager / MME World Classic Rockers
Orange County, California Area

The World Classic Rockers
Production Manager / MME
Nov 2003 – Present
The World Classic Rockers (http://www.wcr.com), is an all star rock and roll band featuring former members of Steppenwolf, Santana, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Kansas, Journey and Boston.

The Crazy Horse Saloon
Production Manager
Oct 1992 – Nov 2010
The Crazy Horse garnered seven awards from the Academy of Country Music (ACM) and one SRO award from The Country Music Association (CMA) as the # 1 night club in the nation.

Mel Torme' / Johnny Lee / Zaca Creek
Audio Engineer / Production Manager
Jun 1986 – Dec 1998
Mel Tormé, Peter Nero and Leslie Uggams, MME: "The Great Gershwin Tour"​.

...
To be fair, that is quite a resumé...

Yup, guess he knows his Ahhh's from his Elbow then.

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 am
by Mike Monte
In bars/small venues I usually go mono.

When I tech a stage for larger outdoor events I will set up the rig in stereo but will mix it in mono (all pans at 12 o'clock).....however, I do like to take a "lead guitarists" sound and bring it to the other side of the stage (via the PA) as guitar amps are "beamy".

Re: live sound - mono or stereo?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:05 am
by The Elf
I have never played a gig in mono!