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Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

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Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Jamma » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:36 pm

Hi guys, I’m very new to this forum so hope i’m not breaking any etiquette! I could really use some sound advice (seriously no pun intended!)

About 25 years ago i invented the ‘Dynacord’ Rhythm Stick, later call The Jamma (actually, i seem to remember a SOS review!). It's a MIDI controller that looks and plays a bit like slapping a bass guitar. I’m thinking of doing some gigs with it in the future but the MIDI tech is really old and there is massive latency when i tried it with Superior Drummer and Ableton LIve.

I’m thinking that maybe the best idea is a hardware sampler but searching around has totally confused me so i’d really appreciate any input please!

I can hopefully remake a Jamma - preferably with just the analogue output of the two piezo transducers - or, i can use a transducer-to-USB converter in the Jamma itself but it’s really important that i keep latency extremely low.

What i need is - preferably rackmount - a sampler with loads of memory (gonna be using 1 and 2 bar loops a lot) and a minimum of 8 analog (piezo transducer) input channels. I like the idea of using a sampler that has the analogue inputs that accesses samples directly without converting the analog to MIDI/USB so to keep latency at an absolute minimum. I also need to trigger different samples in each input channel by velocity. I don't (think) i need the sampler to have a sequencer as the whole idea is to play live with samples.

I’d also like to output MIDI via USB from the sampler to my laptop so i can also really expand the performance via Ableton or Superior Drummer etc (any better suggestions?).

Thanks in advance for any advice :) Pete
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby Dave B » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:31 pm

The only sampler that I know of with 8 analog inputs is a Eurorack module from Rossum electronics. And that isn't a rack.

http://www.rossum-electro.com/products/assimil8or/

You _could_ try hooking it up to a more modern drum module (Alesis DMPro is good) and using midi to trigger loops on a more conventional sampler.

But I'd be looking at your suggestion of putting the converter on the stick and sending USB straight to a laptop.

Cor ... the old Rhythm Stick!! Jarre used one of them - I never found one in the flesh though... good times :)
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Elf » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:23 pm

Are you sure the latency you experienced is what you think it is? For latency to be really that bad I would rather suspect the audio interface's drivers, not the incoming MIDI.
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby zenguitar » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:45 pm

The Elf wrote:Are you sure the latency you experienced is what you think it is? For latency to be really that bad I would rather suspect the audio interface's drivers, not the incoming MIDI.

+1

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Jamma » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks for your input guys, yeah Monsieur Jarre was chasing me down for another on a few years ago but i wasn't able to make him one at the time (due to someone burning my home down). There are a few still out there, including Michael Jackson's red one..

That Assimil8or looks awesome thanks! I’m awaiting more info from them. The Alesis Pro looks great as well, I think maybe your right, use the pro and use midi out to the software sampler, i’m just afraid of latency and like that the Assimil8or takes analog triggers straight to samples without me needing to convert them to MIDI...

I don’t ‘think’ the latency i have is due to audio buffers in Ableton coz i reduced them down until it sounded dreadful and the latency was still there, are there audio buffers in the laptop maybe, did you mean that guys?

Thanks for your help it’s appreciated :)
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Elf » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:46 pm

The Jamma wrote:I don’t ‘think’ the latency i have is due to audio buffers in Ableton coz i reduced them down until it sounded dreadful and the latency was still there, are there audio buffers in the laptop maybe, did you mean that guys?
It's not really anything to do with Ableton. Were you using ASIO drivers? Even on my 200 quid ASDA laptop I can get sub 10ms latency using ASIO4ALL and the built-in audio!

How much latency did you experience? Is this in the region of 'affects my playing, no matter how small', or 'hit a note and wait to hear it'?

Not trying to put you off a hardware sampler per se, but just want to be sure you're doing it for the right reasons! :grin:
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby BJG145 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:47 pm

^^^

Nice gadget. Any latency problems you're experiencing have nothing to do with the software/hardware question, otherwise you wouldn't find everyone using Kontakt and dumping their Akais on eBay. You can't just use the built-in soundcard though; you need a proper ASIO audio interface. They're not expensive.
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby resistorman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:27 am

Do the Akai mpc and mpx have analog trigger inputs?
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby resistorman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:28 am

Or maybe the brain from an electronic drum set?
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby Dave B » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:02 pm

That's why I suggested something like the Alesis DM Pro - iirc, one of the DMs (after the 5) let you add your own samples via a pcmcia card thingy.
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Jamma » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:39 pm

Dudes, thank you all so much for your advice. ASIO4ALL fixed the problem, well latency is down to about 10ms which is manageable for sure. I’m currently working on resurrecting The Jamma and having fun doing it!

In my investigations i have discovered this open source hardware sampler that is:

Awesome and perfectly suits electronic percussionists.
Under a hundred quid!!!!
Fully customisable.

It's’ based on the Raspberry Pi and called SamplerBox.org http://www.samplerbox.org/, it'sreally awesome, it's small enough to actually fit ‘into’ The Jamma like my dream decades ago! (not sure how to embed a URL

Thanks again and if anyone is interested i’ll keep you updated :)

(dunno if the image link below will work?)

Image
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby ben howes » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:22 am

Hi Pete,
You may be interested in the Megadrum trigger to midi interface. Popular with DIY electronic drummers. The lite version is a teeny board for abou £70 . The guy running the forum makes and sells them. Not exactly plug and play, but supremely flexible.
http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewtop ... f=3&t=2667
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby Dave B » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:57 am

Cheers for both updates there chaps - both are of interest to me and have me scratching my head and hatching evil plans ;)
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby desmond » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:18 pm

The Jamma wrote:About 25 years ago i invented the ‘Dynacord’ Rhythm Stick, later call The Jamma (actually, i seem to remember a SOS review!). It's a MIDI controller that looks and plays a bit like slapping a bass guitar.

Here's one I dug up earlier:
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/hits-from-the-stick/1832

Looks like fun! :)
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby BJG145 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:07 am

One of these is currently on eBay - first one I've seen for sale. They're pretty scarce. It's going to take some work though.

Seems various celebs have used them including Jarre, Michael Jackson and Billy Ocean. There were two versions of this final wooden model, one with MIDI (original RRP £500), one without. With the MIDI one, there was apparently a special cable to a power supply box which also had the MIDI interface. This one is offered with no box or cable.

The OP who invented the thing is currently rebuilding a very similar one, having gutted the old electronics and using a MegaDrum instead based on the advice from this thread. Could be a fun project.
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby The Korff » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:32 am

There was an expansion card for one of the Akai samplers that had a number of trigger inputs... The ASK-90 I think, compatible with the S900/S950. But those samplers are now considered 'vintage' and sell for loads because of their grotty 12-bit converters. I don't know if the ASK-90 would fit into some of the later S-series racks?
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby desmond » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:59 am

The Korff wrote:There was an expansion card for one of the Akai samplers that had a number of trigger inputs... The ASK-90 I think, compatible with the S900/S950. But those samplers are now considered 'vintage' and sell for loads because of their grotty 12-bit converters. I don't know if the ASK-90 would fit into some of the later S-series racks?

No, it was just for the S9xx.

After that, Akai made the ME33T, a stand alone trigger interface you could use with any sampler/module/drum machine...

Loads of modules have trigger inputs too, like the Alesis D4, Yamaha RM50 etc...
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Re: Sampler for vintage MIDI trigger ‘Dynacord Rhythm Stick'??

Postby BJG145 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:27 pm

BJG145 wrote:One of these is currently on eBay

Sold for £113. In case the buyer saw/sees this post, I noticed what might be a viable PSU for sale here.
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