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Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby maskedwarrior » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:07 pm

I'm interested in this: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400:

https://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behringer/Signal-Processors/DI-Boxes/HD400/p/P0387

I'm after a simple, basic way of converting an unbalanced 3.5mm jack output from a macbook pro, into two balanced XLRs running into a small PA. I have all the cables, the above will provide a simple way of connecting together. It's for a small, simple live rig, which runs from one power outlet. It was previously run through an Edirol UA-25 interface, which I think has been causing the Macbook to freeze and lock up during live shows (needing a hard reset to get QLab up and working again). So I'm trying to cut the interface out of the equation.

I was looking at a DI box, but really I wanted a low-cost solution, which doesn't needlessly drop the signal to mic-level, and this is as much about ease of connection as it is about ground loop isolation anyway.

I was going to rig up a pseudo-balanced cable, but then I saw this.

I was mostly curious about how these little boxes work, how they achieve what they claim to achieve and whether anyone's had any experience with them?
Thanks
Tony
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Bob Bickerton » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:20 pm

First up, I’ve never really had problems connecting a MacBook Pro directly to a sound system, so you could probably get away with a cable solution.

The cheaper Behringer stuff hasn’t enjoyed a good reputation and I, for one, would not use their DIs. Also that unit appears to be jack to jack, so you’re still going to need to use conversion cables to get to XLR.

A better solution would be to use an ‘AV’ DI.

The cheapest I’d recommend would be the ART DTI, https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DTI which would give you the XLR option.

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:26 pm

A pseudo-balanced cable would almost certainly do the job perfectly well, but an isolation box gives added peace of mind and worthwhile protection from phantom power or electrical faults in the PA system.

maskedwarrior wrote:I was mostly curious about how these little boxes work, how they achieve what they claim to achieve and whether anyone's had any experience with them?

No experience of this specific unit. It looks much like the ART Cleanbox2... but there are many others on the market at a range of prices.

Essentially, they simply contain two 1:1 ratio isolating transformers, one for each channel. Each channel's input connection is wired to the primary winding of its transformer, and the output to the secondary.

The transformers pass the signals magnetically between their primary and secondary windings, but there is no direct electrical connection so the grounds of the source and destination equipment are kept completely separate. This is what avoids creating the feared ground-loop and thus prevents ground-loop hums or buzzes.

In addition, the transformers automatically convert between balanced and unbalanced connections, which is handy.

The main differences between the various models of this kind of thing come down to connectivity options, the quality of the transformer, and the provision of EM shielding.

The last helps to prevent (or at least minimise) external magnetic fields from inducing hum into the transformers -- but you can do the same simply by locating the box well away from anything with a mains transformer in it!

The quality of the transformer affects the audio signal quality; specifically the frequency response extremes and the distortion. Better (more expensive) transformers can handle much higher levels at low frequencies with much less distortion... but whether that's critically important or not depends on the material and the application.

Connectivity requirements are also dependent on application, of course. Like Bob, my favoured box for this kind of thing is the ART DTI. It probably costs twice as much as the HD400, but it is much more than twice as versatile as it has almost every connector known to man on the thing, which also makes it really useful for signal splitting and avoids the need for adaptors in most situations!

Image

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/art-dti

For completeness, I should also say that there are dedicated laptop interface boxes, too both active and passive. Several companies make them, but I'm most familiar with the Radial Engineering range such as the Radial Trim Two (passive), and JPC (active). Although these are quite expensive, they are nicely optimised for this application (I use a JPC interface quite often)

http://www.radialeng.com/trimtwo.php" target="phpbbpopup
http://www.radialeng.com/jpc.php" target="phpbbpopup

Hope that helps
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:10 pm

If you can't stretch to the Art, Orchid Electronics do this one for £35 inc VAT and postage. I have a single channel TS-TRS one and a special cable that John at Orchid made for me to sum the MacBook stereo outputs to mono. That cost £27.50 in total and is useful as it only uses up one desk input/channel.
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby ef37a » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:46 pm

Ten minutes ago I downloaded the manual for the Radial Catapult TX4 and RX4 isolators.

These are overkill for the OP's task as they give 4 balanced circuits over CAT 5 cable.

I have printed out the schematics (rare but VERY nice to get!) and confess I cannot as yet make a lot of sense of them. Maybe Hugh could enlighten me?

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:59 pm

ef37a wrote:Ten minutes ago I downloaded the manual for the Radial Catapult TX4 and RX4 isolators. ... I have printed out the schematics (rare but VERY nice to get!) and confess I cannot as yet make a lot of sense of them. Maybe Hugh could enlighten me?

Looks pretty straightforward to me, Dave, although each schematic actually describes three different variants which doesn't help! It is quite an elegant system, though.

As far as I can see, each set (In/out or Thru) of four XLRs on the two sides of the box is wired in parallel directly with its corresponding (In/Out or thru) Ethercon RJ45 socket.

Added to that, each in/out XLR is also wired across to its correspondingly-numbered thru XLR either directly (via '0 Ohm' resistors) or via transformers (which can either be 1:1 isolating types, or step-up/down mic/line types).

And the grounds of all the XLRs can be lifted en-masse from their respective Ethercon grounds.

So what doesn't make sense?
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby maskedwarrior » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:20 am

Hello! And thank you for your wonderful replies.

I am interested in the Art, however I notice it has no ground lift, unlike the Radical ones and some others with 1:1 transformers.

One thing I want to stress - my laptop/pa rig needs to be as stable as possible. Our stage show is visiting some quite posh (for us) places this year and I just can't have it hanging mid-performance! It is super stressing me out.

I have tested the rig, without the PA attached, for about 12 hours with no hangs. I will continue to test, but I'm starting to think it may be a ground-loop/surge which occurs when the PA is attached, hitting the USB interface and locking up the mac. It seems less unlikely the more I think about it and I wonder if I've been silly not using a DI until now!

I like using my interface, so may I ask, how effectively will the Art insulate/isolate my mac from the PA etc, and protect it from this (completely theoretical) interference? Is it going to totally isolate the ground, or is this why ground switches are present on the Radical boxes etc?

However, pending feedback, I may do away with the USB interface altogether and opt for a small mixer and connect via the laptop 3.5mm jack, as it seems like less of a vulnerable way to connect the mac than a usb straight into the motherboard. (It does, however, risk a rogue laptop system sound sneaking into our show score, if I haven't been thorough enough at silencing everything!)

I'm also interested in the isolators I've linked below: they get slightly better feedback on studio spares than the Art, they seem like a professional box, albeit a bit more paired down - but perfect to pair with a small mixer (I have a very slim wallet on this production so I'm after bang for buck, without compromise in terms of hardware safety):

IMG Stageline FGA-202 2-Channel Line Transformer
https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/IMG-Stageline-FGA-202-2-Channel-Line-Transformer/25YP#full-des

AND Stageline FGA-102 Stereo Line Transformer
https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/Mic-Transformers/Stageline-FGA-102-Stereo-Line-Transformer_255290.htm

I know it's horses for courses but your feedback would be great! As stated, this needs to be an ultra-reliable setup and resulting stress has already shortened my life too much.
Thanks so much,
Anthony
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Bob Bickerton » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:32 am

The Art DTI provides permanent isolation, so no ground lift switch required.

Here’s Hugh’s review: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/art-dti

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby ef37a » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:30 am

Anthony, I would go for the Art for two reasons.
1) It has a much more versatile compliment of connectors.
2) It has been under Hugh's 'ruler' and use! In any case, the spec of those linked devices is poor.."Frequency RANGE"??

The reason some 'DI' boxes have ground lift switches is because they are often used to feed a second device, almost always a guitar amplifier and that device may or may not be earthed. This is becoming increasingly so with the rise of solid state 'modelling' amps that use Class ll, earth free insulation. Then, in any given situation the hum level might be better or worse if the ground is lifted.

Your situation is rather different. You need to isolate the feed from just ONE device to another, you are not going to hook in other stuff and in any case what is needed is a 1:1 transformer isolator, not a 10:1 guitar DI box.
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:27 am

maskedwarrior wrote:I am interested in the Art, however I notice it has no ground lift, unlike the Radical ones and some others with 1:1 transformers.

I'm not entirely convinced you're comparing like with like here... DI boxes are generally used with an instrument that needs to be grounded, but that ground may need to come from the PA or from the guitar amp... so the ground continuity situation is more complex, making the gnd-lift switch an important facility.

But that's not the case in a situation where you want to galvanically isolate the source from a single destination. In such cases there should be no ground connection between the two, and providing a switch on the box -- especially a box which only has balanced inputs and outputs -- is to completely miss the point of using the box at all! :headbang:

The reason the DTI has no ground lift switch is because the input and output grounds are separated permanently. There is no direct connection between the input grounds and the output grounds... Which is kinda the whole point of the thing!

may I ask, how effectively will the Art insulate/isolate my mac from the PA etc

Totally. That's what it is designed to do. There will be no electrical connection whatsoever between the equipment connected to each side of the transformer box. It is the perfect definition of 'galvanically isolated'!

...and protect it from this (completely theoretical) interference?

It depends how you define 'interference' -- its a word that means different things to different people. The DTI (and boxes like it) is useful in removing ground-loops when used appropriately, and ground-loops can cause hums and buzzes. Its also ideal for balancing unbalanced sources for connection over long cables to something with balanced inputs.

Like all these devices, the DTi Is a tool that is used for a specific job. It can resolve specific problems... But it is important to identify the relevant problems accuractely and use the right tools and techniques to resolve them.

Is it going to totally isolate the ground

Yes.

I did say there are many other makes of line isolation transformer box, but I can't offer much of an opinion on those specific boxes as I've not tested or used them. What I can say is that their published specs appear rather limited and the provision of a ground lift switch on one model makes me wonder if the designer really knew what they were doing.

However, I have tested the DTI, I use it almost everyday, and I've recommended it widely to many people who use it to solve ground-loop (and other) problems everyday and all are very happy with it. The product is also fully specified -- including the distortion at different line levels -- and the handbook includes the schematic.... All of which is very confidence inspiring.

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby maskedwarrior » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:16 pm

That's great feedback thanks. I get the impression the Art is the weapon of choice here

And please don't think I'm second guessing this, I totally respect everyone's opinions, particularly when you've actually used the device in question. However since you said, Hugh,
The quality of the transformer affects the audio signal quality; specifically the frequency response
I was interested in exploring either a more paired-down, better quality option or perhaps just getting something in the next bracket up.

It's just that, glancing at various retail sites, there isn't a consensus on the audio quality of the Art. I don't know myself, I haven't used it. I know you like it, Hugh, and I respect your opinion but clearly you linked to the Radicals for a reason, as they represent the full professional scale.

I'm also aware I didn't explain my circumstances very well, and perhaps I gave the wrong impression about what I want to achieve and had a misguided impression of price points.

I am using this device to deliver a stage play sound design and backing tracks to my LD Maui PA, and (potentially) provide aux outs to various theatre systems of varying quality throughout the UK to add some subtle reinforcement. The setup in question is a macbook pro running Qlab 4, with an Art-net-DMX ethernet device connected from the mac to an LED lantern. The whole PA is built into a stained glass window set-piece and I operate the QLab audio/LX remotely while acting onstage, using a USB clicker. The audio is a UA-25 interface, running on generic sound device mode (without drivers).

It is a fiddly setup. The audio interface needs updating, and perhaps I had an unrealistic impression of price-points for isolators to begin with, and underrepresented the factors involved. However, audio consistency does matter to me and I'm like... if I can't get something more dedicated but a bit cheaper, I may as well fork out the extra money for a really widely appraised model... like this one:

http://www.radialeng.com/stagebugsb6.php" target="phpbbpopup" target="phpbbpopup

Incidentally this isolator has a ground lift. So, why? Is this just a hangover that manufacturers include because it's what customers expect to see?
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby ef37a » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:53 pm

"Incidentally this isolator has a ground lift. So, why? Is this just a hangover that manufacturers include because it's what customers expect to see?"

Quite possibly! Like standby switches on valve guitar amps*.

There is no doubt that the Radial devices are of excellent quality but I seem to recall that the much cheaper Orchid boxes measured almost or even AS well? Do not forget as well that for all their bandying of superb figures, the performance of a transformer, its response, distortion and losses are very dependant upon drive and load impedance. All transformers have to obey the laws of physics (though active boxes can do magical things with a bit of feedback!) .

I am sure that if the Art DTI is good enough for Hugh it will be good enough for you! Why pay for facilities you don't need? Then there is the safety isolation matter to mention?

The Art is about as safe as you can get. The transformers are likely proofed to at least 250V AC and possibly 2kV. The absence of a gnd lift switch means there is nothing else that could breakdown in the VERY rare event of a chassis becoming live. A dinky 'audio' switch might not save you at peak mains V?

*I have a theory. Valve manufacturers, SB switches destroy rectifier valves!

BTW, you are looking to replace the interface? Do consider the NI KA6, as reliable, hard and software as a wood burning stove.
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:42 pm

maskedwarrior wrote:That's great feedback thanks. I get the impression the Art is the weapon of choice here

Its a useful tool because it caters for a lot of different connection formats, is pretty affordable, and the technical performance is quite acceptable in most applications. I've not found anything better for the price.

But, in ultra-demanding situations, I use a canford audio line isolator instead, which has Lundahl transformers. One of the high-end Radial boxes fitted with original Jensen transformers would be as good.... but there aren't many applications where the quality improvement would be audible -- including (I suspect) your application! And I'm talking here about boxes costing close to £150 instead of £50.

It's just that, glancing at various retail sites, there isn't a consensus on the audio quality of the Art.

Consensus on any audio product is a pretty rare thing... but everyone has an opinion whether they know what they're talking about or not! ;-)

I may as well fork out the extra money for a really widely appraised model... like this one: http://www.radialeng.com/stagebugsb6.php

Incidentally this isolator has a ground lift. So, why? Is this just a hangover that manufacturers include because it's what customers expect to see?

No. Its because the box is also intended to serve as an unbalanced-to-balanced converter, and in that role it may be appropriate to link source and destination grounds.

Radial products are always well-built and reliable, and I'm sure this one will work as expected.... However, will you really hear the difference between 0.01%THD and 0.05%THD (from a +18dBu input level) over your PA system hidden in the scenery? Because that, and reduced connection flexibility, is all that doubling the price gets you! Personally, I doubt you'd hear any difference between that and the DTI at all... ;-)
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby maskedwarrior » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:29 pm

Hello all,
I just wanted to give my feedback, having bought both the Art DTI and the Radial Stagebug SB-6. So, I thought I'd write a little review!

The Art DTI and the Radial Stagebug SB-6 are both dual channel isolators with 1:1 transformers, designed for use with higher gain signals and which don't attenuate the output to mic level (like most DI boxes). As well as helping deal with interference and ground loop hums, they have the added advantage of converting an unbalanced signal (say from a laptop) to a balanced signal, for longer cable runs. It was great to learn about these dedicated little boxes!

I really appreciated having the DTI and the SB-6 side by side to compare. My suspicions were, for my application, I might notice the shortcomings of a cheaper isolator (below £200) and I wanted to choose the best one for my purposes.

NOTE: if you notice any terminological or other errors in this review please tell me and I'll change it if I can.

Image


Appearances:
The Art DTI seems solidly made, with an eye to the aesthetic. Medium weight. Aluminium body and rubberised sides that form into two 'feet', to insulate it and provide cushioned sides when squashed up against other gear. Nice touch. The packaging is very nice. It looks cool

The Radial SB-6 is a steel box, basically. It has a practical sort of look to it, similar to a lot of effects pedals you've seen. Pretty heavy. The packaging is very minimal, the sort of folding plastic thing you buy tools in. Overall not as pretty or well presented as the DTI, but reassuring in a no-frills way.

Connections:
The Art DTI has lots of connections. It's very handy, I didn't try all of them, however one thing I was keen to test was how firmly the XLR female connectors accepted their male counterpart, as I'd read a customer review which suggested they could be more secure. They were OK, although, as I was hoping to chuck it in a box and leave it connected, they weren't as firm as I could have hoped and there was no securing clip. Other than that, all good.

The Radial SB-6 has two inputs/outputs. A standard 1/4" jack, balanced or unbalanced. Nothing like the versatility of the DTI, but the connectors seemed firm and probably as solid and reliable as the jack plugs you put inside them.

Buttons:
The Art DTI has no buttons, it is a very simple unit that provides isolation between an input and an output. It has an earth terminal in case you want to attach your own ground wire.

The Radial SB-6 has four buttons, two ground lifts next to the outputs, a phase switch next to one input channel and an input pad. The switches seem solid, in keeping with the unit as a whole, although they aren't protected in any way from being accidentally pressed during use. When the 1/4" jacks are inserted either side this provides some protection against accidental pressing, but you'd want to check the buttons before each use, if you'd moved it in the interim

Sound:
Now this is based on my setup - using stereo balanced 1/4" Jacks either side on both units, feeding into my average but respectably flat monitors, in a room that's moderately treated for mixing using rockwool frames (thanks SOS!). My ears are by no means flawless, but I managed a good A/B/C test of my setup with/without the transformer isolators in the chain. Here are my thoughts, briefly.

Image

The Art DTI sounded pretty flat in the high frequencies, as if you were getting out about what you were putting in. However, mid to low frequencies fell off noticeable, it sounded as though the whole mix had a gentle high-pass filter added to it, the bottom end was noticeably less present and it was hard to determine (in my setup) at what frequency this fall-off started. Also the overall sound seemed a little 'flat', I guess, but I could well have imagined that.

The Radial SB-6, could be described as 'averagely' flat across the whole frequency spectrum, but not straight as a die. It sounded fuller and pretty close to the original in the low frequencies, and overall you might not notice it was present at all, to begin with. But after a while I began to notice it excited the top frequencies (8 - 10 kHz upwards as an estimate), and I could hear a little trough at around maybe 4.5khz or a bit lower. Essentially it added a subtle 'lopsided smile' hi-fi eq, which sounded quite flattering on my monitors, playing well-mixed commercial recordings, notably Before These Crowded Streets by Dave Matthews Band. Then I put on PJ Harvey's first album, Dry, and the trebles were too much, it grated quite quickly.

Conclusion:
So, in the end I kept the Radial Stagebug SB-6 and sent back the Art DTI. Reason being, I needed something to convey a full soundscape as transparently as possible and the bass fall-off of the DTI concerned me, and boosting to compensate seemed potentially tricky and unreliable. The Radial SB-6's higher frequency issues seemed easier to control and was listenable-to as it was on well-mixed material - and my sound design is, I flatter myself, pretty well-mixed :smirk: . I like bass levels to be a known quantity. Also, for my usage, the necessity to tweak the high end in a variety of theatre spaces - some full of padded seats and black masking, others echoing, repurposed warehouses - seemed pretty much a certainty anyway. So, the choice was sort of made for me.

I'm guessing both device's anomalies are due to manufacturers trying to make a transformer at a certain price point. The Radial SB-6 cost me £85 (down from £100 on offer). The Art DTI cost me £55 (but was very hard to get hold of as everyone was awaiting stock and I could have had it for £45 if I'd waited).

I can see both boxes have their place, depending on what you want to do. If it's for band use, used with individual live instruments placed within an overall mix, or if compensating bass with EQ doesn't phase you, then I can see the versatility of the Art DTI winning out for many. If, however, you want to convey a soundstage as accurately as possible with minimal fuss at a certain price point, I'd say try the Radial SB-6.

I was sorely tempted to get a Jensen transformer isolator for nearer £250, as I don't believe in messing about and I wanted something FLAT, but I realised the Radial SB-6 is pretty much fine and I can always upgrade later. I do wonder if the Art DTI technology has suffered a downgrade since Hugh's review in 2012, as my impressions differed from the consensus here, somewhat.

Anyway, since I'd not found any product comparisons for 1:1 transformer isolators - and as I have a suspicion that, in the age of plugging laptops into everything, there are many who'd find one of these boxes useful if they only knew about them - I decided to give back to the internet and write up my impressions. And these are just my impressions, which could well be entirely unhelpful and wrong!

Thanks everyone for your help, you pointed me in the right direction and (I hope) helped me solve a niggling problem. At least, if not, you've helped guard me from unwanted ground loop issues when I plug into dodgy in-house systems in small theatres throughout England and Wales this year!

Best Wishes,
Tony
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:12 pm

I'm glad you've found something you're pleased with. I agree that there certainly are 'better' boxes around than the ART. As I think I said earlier, I use a Canford unit fitted with Lundahl transformers when ultimate quality is critically important.

However, none of the 'better' boxes are as cheap or versatile as the DTI, and I'm yet to find anyone who regrets buying one, and mine gets used a lot more often than the Canford box!

Regarding the perceived frequency response variations, transformers are inherently sensitive to the source and loading impedances, as well as input levels, so it is inevitable that the technical performance will tend to vary slightly depending on what the box contains and what it is connected to.

In general, a very high destination impedance will tend to let the transformer resonate at some frequency above 20kHz, typically resulting in an audible HF rise -- often deemed to add a sense of increased 'air'. Conversely, a low destination impedance will damp the transformer and tend to cause some HF roll-off. The precise amounts and corner frequencies will vary with the transformer design (and thus cost) as well as the circuit impedances.

For the low end, 'better' (as in larger and more expensive) transformers tend to have more consistent low-end response in terms of level, extension, and distortion. Added to which, the stronger the input level, the more the LF tends to suffer.

However, these frequency response variations can usually be compensated for with EQ easily enough if deemed important, but they are generally insignificant and tolerable in most situations -- in direct contrast to the ground loop hums or buzzes that typical cause the transformer box's installation in the first place! ;-)

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby ef37a » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Since you said nothing Hugh I assume you were able to see the OP's images in his last post?

I could not and when I clicked on them I got "Image Failed to Load" any idea why?

I am rather surprised he found such large differences in the sound quality between the two devices? I would have put money on differences being hard to detect unless doing an A/B test with noise? Since neither isolator was 'perfect' I would love to see the results of some more 'scientific' tests!

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:41 pm

ef37a wrote:Since you said nothing Hugh I assume you were able to see the OP's images in his last post?

Nope. Not visible. The image is stored in his dropbox account which is not publically accesssible and hence not visible in the forum.

I am rather surprised he found such large differences in the sound quality between the two devices?

We don't know the precise details of the system impedances or levels, but in an AB test of this type with familiar material even subtle response differences will stand out to the tester... although I doubt any audience member would notice (or care). ;)

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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby maskedwarrior » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:08 pm

Oh sorry, the dropbox links work for me. If I upload to a site would anyone be able to change the link destinations for me? I can't edit now.

First image: https://imgur.com/vRsCopv

Second image: https://imgur.com/YVIJTNU

If possible, thank you!!
T
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Re: Behringer MICROHD Hum Destroyer HD400

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:30 pm

maskedwarrior wrote:Oh sorry, the dropbox links work for me. If I upload to a site would anyone be able to change the link destinations for me? I can't edit now.

First image: https://imgur.com/vRsCopv

Second image: https://imgur.com/YVIJTNU

If possible, thank you!!
T

Done ;)


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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK


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