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Small live/party outdoors

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Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:14 pm

Hello guys!I want to do a party at my yard which is quite big with approximatly 40 people .I want to play and sing some songs with my acoustic guitar and i'm not sure if my speakers are loud enough to do it decent.I own these https://www.musicstore.de/en_NO/NOK/Fame-audio-MC-10-PLUS-150-Watt-8-Ohm/art-PAH0008254-000 and this https://www.musicstore.de/en_GR/EUR/Fame-audio-PM-400-Powermixer-2x-75W-4-Ohm-DSP/art-PAH0008094-000 I want your opinion if it is worth it or if i need something else to be good.(i have one dynamic mic and one cardioid and im thninking to conect my external soundcard with the mixer and play throuh my daw so i can put some eq,compressors,reverb etc)

Thank you in advance
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:08 pm

I would expect that would do the job just fine. I've done plenty of open mics in pubs with a similar sized set up. :)
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Jumpeyspyder » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:11 pm

Your PA gear should do the job fine!

You would be wise to do a test with your FX being added through your DAW beforehand, as the latency may/may not be a problem.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Wonks » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 am

And compression should be used sparingly, if at all, as any make-up gain applied brings you closer to the onset of feedback. So it's best to use it for limiting (if felt necessary), so it just kicks in on the loudest signals, but be very wary about adding any make-up gain as well.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby garrettendi » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:34 am

I'm not an expert in any way shape or form but I'd definitely listen to the advice about testing those effects in the DAW first. The last thing you want in a live gig is latency sufficient to affect your performance or jar the listening experience.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:45 am

Thank you all very much guys for your replys!I will test it for sure before the live to see about the latency.But now at my laptop with headphones i dont have any latency how can i have there?Moreover when i try to play with my monitors open (not them) in my room, i cant because i have a huge problem with feedback and i tried to low the frequenses that may cost that feedback with the eq but i cant there are too many and i dont know what to do.The monitors look at me and the mic looks at me and i am in a fair distance from the monitors too.If you have any sugetions for that it will be verry helpful!!I hope i will not have that problem with so much feedbak outdoors.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby AlecSp » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:54 pm

maryfallon wrote:Moreover when i try to play with my monitors open (not them) in my room, i cant because i have a huge problem with feedback and i tried to low the frequenses that may cost that feedback with the eq but i cant there are too many and i dont know what to do.The monitors look at me and the mic looks at me and i am in a fair distance from the monitors too.If you have any sugetions for that it will be verry helpful!!I hope i will not have that problem with so much feedbak outdoors.
Sounds like you've never done live sound before?
If so, then give it a dry run first, you may be shocked at the limitations you have to face.
And you may be much better off with a simple setup (mic & DId guitar into amp & speakers) than trying to hone the production and cause yourself all sorts of other problems. Also, don't be afraid to keep the level *down* - it'll help avoid feedback, it'll avoid you overdriving your so-so (but OK) kit, and many of your guests will probably also be appreciative.

Much better a simple production that just works, than something all singing, all dancing that is full of feedback and problems...
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:26 am

I dont have any live sound engineering experience you are right and i'm not an expert for sure but i know some things!(i have played in places but there was a guy every time to fix all the problems) I thought it would be easy to have two mics the cardioid for my acousic and the dynamic for my vocals pluged into my soundcard and the soundcard to the mixer and i thought i would have about 60% of the sound that i hear in my headphones in my room. I knew it isnt the same place so i should do some adjustments but i didnt thought i would have so much problems with feedback and all of that things that tou told me! :x Maybe i will simplify the whole thing,One mic the cardioid pluged directly to mixer for the whole thing (guitar & vocals) and i will have only the eq and reverb from the powermixer.If i dont have too much feedback when i will turn on the volume, it would be okay.I see so many guys at streets that they sing and play guitar loud enough (in a speaker or two sometimes) and they dont have problems like these and they have a decent sound too.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:35 am

Does your guitar have a pickup? If so it will be a lot less feedback prone than using a mic (the buskers you mention will almost certainly be using 'electro-acoustic' instruments). Your vocal mic will be designed for you to sing into it from a distance of a couple of inches max. If you are singing 6" or 12" from the mic you will struggle to get loud without feedback, and, with a mic on a guitar you need it close (and, incidentally, not pointing at the soundhole which leads to boomyness and LF feedback).

Finally, you mention monitors, for a low volume/small crowd event like yours with acoustic guitar and vocal you probably don't need monitors (I maintain that solo acoustic singer/guitarists shouldn't need monitors in 90% of venues) so try without, it's one less thing to cause problems. The KISS principle (not the band but "Keep It Simple Sir" (wording altered to protect the innocent ;) )) is well worth applying.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Wonks » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:09 am

What Sam said. If it's only you, then you shouldn't need monitors. Put the speakers in front of you so that most of the sound goes forwards and you should be OK. Especially outside where there are less walls and close objects to reflect back sound at you.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:27 pm

Maybe i misleaded you, let me try again.When i wrote for monitors i opened another subject/ problem that i have in my room with feedback not that i would use the monitors in the venue!My guitar is an acoustic guitar without a pickup so i have to put a mic but im wondering if its best to put only one for vox and guitar or one for vox and one for guitar(its only me).The speakers (and only the speakers) will be in front of me like Wonks said and i will be behind them.Sam spoons if i undestood well what i read you purposed to me to use two mics(cardioid and dynamic) because if i'll use one (caridioid) i would have problems with vocals loudness cause i would be "far" from the mic?
By the way thank you all for the help!!
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:45 pm

Yep, you've pretty much got it. Two mics mean each one can be closer to the source (voice or guitar), which means you don't have to turn up the gain as much, which means less chance of feedback.
Keep it simple, voice into channel 1, guitar into channel 2, bit of reverb from the FX and any backing tracks or other music for the rest of the party going into the stereo input on the back. :)
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:58 am

maryfallon wrote:Sam spoons if i undestood well what i read you purposed to me to use two mics(cardioid and dynamic) because if i'll use one (caridioid) i would have problems with vocals loudness cause i would be "far" from the mic?
By the way thank you all for the help!!

Yes, you've got it.

A couple of things, your dynamic mic is probably a cardioid and your cardioid a dynamic too.Point the guitar mic at the 12/14th fret and as close as you can without it interfering with your playing.

It's pretty difficult to control position and distance if you are playing standing (easier but still not simple when sitting) so a pickup is a better solution for live. If your guitar is a steel string then a soundhole pickup is the easiest to fit and can be bought from around £25 (or less but this one is the cheapest one I have found that sounds reasonable https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Artec-Msp50-osj-Soundhole-Pickup-for-Acoustic-Guitar-6-or-12-String/1409978537?iid=332624724356&chn=ps&adgroupid=52130512215&rlsatarget=pla-451946728980&abcId=1133906&adtype=pla&merchantid=7353084&poi=&googleloc=9046613&device=c&campaignid=1058844235&crdt=0).
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:44 pm

Hi guys I have some more problems and i want some more help please!The mixer doesnt have phantom power so i have to play with my sound card from daw.Its okay i tried that in my house and its okay with feedback/volume/latency without vsts..But there is a big problem, when my battery of my laptop died and pluged it into electricity i have a big noise to the monitors and i dont know why.. Maybe its an electricity thing because the mixer and the laptop takes power at the same time.I tried the mixer and the laptop take electric power from different sources but theres no differennce..Please help what can i do?
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby blinddrew » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:58 pm

Hi Mary,
It sounds like you've got a ground loop going on, but it would help if you could describe exactly what you've got connected to what, using what cables, and powered from what sources.
Cheers
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:39 pm

Hi Drew,
My laptop is connected with my external soundcard through a usb,the sound card through rca with the mixer and the mixer with the speakers through mono cable jacks to each one.Τhe power comes from different regular sockets to mixer and to the laptop.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:47 pm

more specific info of what your rig is and what you are using it for (laptop for backing or for recording etc.)?
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby maryfallon » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:05 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:more specific info of what your rig is and what you are using it for (laptop for backing or for recording etc.)?


The rig is on the first post the (speakers and the mixer).What else do you want to know so i can tell you.(Laptop:Lenovo g500, soundcard:focusrite scarlett 2i2, mic 1:RODE SM6, mic 2:a cheap fame like sm58)The laptop is used to support soundcard so i can have phantom power for the RODE.I open the daw then 2 channels for each mic and thats it no vsts only some effect from the mixer.
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby blinddrew » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:53 pm

Hi Mary,
you might be best investing in a dedicated phantom power supply or a transformer isolator as it sounds like adding the laptop into the mix could be causing a ground loop. These can be tricky to pin down, but there are a couple of things to cover off first.
1, try to power all your equipment from the same socket. If everything is running off the same ground there can't be a loop...
2, what kind of cable are you using from the output of the focusrite to the mixer? Or are you taking audio output from the laptop?
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Re: Small live/party outdoors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:32 pm

blinddrew wrote:If everything is running off the same ground there can't be a loop...

I'm afraid that's not quite right. There is still a loop -- just draw it out and it's obvious! -- but there is a benefit in running everything off the same socket which is that it minimises the size of the loop.

The nasty hum noises come from the voltage being developed between the mains grounds of the equipment, and that voltage being added to the wanted unbalanced audio signal which shares the same ground references, to create an audible hum.

The bigger the loop, the more cable is involved, and more cable means greater resistance. According to Mr Ohm, a current flowing through a higher resistance creates a larger voltage.

So, the smaller the loop, the smaller the voltage that develops across the mains earth cabling due to leakage currents, and that, in turn, reduces the strength and audibility of any ground loop hums added to the wanted audio signal.

Powering everything from the same mains socket (or double outlet) via a star-arrangement of plug boards doesn't remove ground loops, but it does minimise them and is therefore highly beneficial in most cases.

H
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