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IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

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IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby audioshed1 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:02 pm

Hi Everyone!

I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer that I want to use onstage with my band to control our IEM mixes. Specifically I want to feed a transmitter(s) for wireless in-ears as well as send the mixer mains out to the FOH mixer. That way I could control my own monitoring right after the source and not rely on getting a feed from FOH. What’s the best way this could work?

My Mackie board has 2 XLR Mains Outs (L&R), 2 1/4” Main Outs (L&R), 2 Aux Send 1/4” Outputs, and each channel has an individual direct out.

At the very minimum, I would be working with 1 wireless lead vocal mic, 1 bg vocal mic and a direct out from my guitar amp (I don’t necessarily need to send the amp to FOH; I just need it for monitors).

The lead vocal wireless mic system is a Sennheiser XS. The Wireless IEMs would be either Senn EW 300 G3 or Audio Technica M2.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be highly appreciated!

Thank you and take care!
Blake
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:57 am

I'd use either splitter leads from the mics, one send to FOH and t'other to the Mackie (I have one of those BTW, great little mixer). That will give you the chance to send three different IEM mixes (though two would have to be mono and one of those post fade so it's not ideal) I assume you are used to using IEMs so no need to point out the 'need' for some means of hearing the rest of the band?

BTW if you don't want to use XLR splitter leads you can get away with half inserting TS jacks into the insert sockets to sniff the signal there. Not ideal either as they can get knocked in or pulled out accidentally which will kill your FOH feed.
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby audioshed1 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:07 am

Sam Spoons wrote:I'd use either splitter leads from the mics, one send to FOH and t'other to the Mackie (I have one of those BTW, great little mixer). That will give you the chance to send three different IEM mixes (though two would have to be mono and one of those post fade so it's not ideal) I assume you are used to using IEMs so no need to point out the 'need' for some means of hearing the rest of the band?

BTW if you don't want to use XLR splitter leads you can get away with half inserting TS jacks into the insert sockets to sniff the signal there. Not ideal either as they can get knocked in or pulled out accidentally which will kill your FOH feed.

Hey Sam, thank you for the response sir!

What do you think of this:
What if I came out of each channel insert jack (using as direct-out) with TS cables and went into a multi-channel DI box that could bring the Direct-out line level signal back down to mic-level which I could send to FOH with XLRs? And for monitoring, I could come out of the Mackie’s Aux Sends 1 & 2 outputs with TS cables to the 1/L and 2/R audio inputs on the IEM transmitter.

That transmitter could feed two receivers set to mix/stereo and one would pan the receiver balance knob left for their custom mix and the other pan the balance knob right for their custom mix. Each custom mix could be tweaked with the aux knobs on the Mackie, thus making aux send 1 become custom mix 1 and aux send 2 become custom mix 2.

Thanks again!
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby Dave B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:38 am

I'm looking at the 1202 and I can't see any direct outs on the channels. As Sam says, there are inserts on 4 of the channels, so you could send 4 channels to the FOH by (ab)using those fine.

On a more general note, I realise that some people may be happy with Y leads, but there is a low cost (and decent quality) solution to splitting mic signals from Orchid Electronics :

http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/micsplit.htm

For 215quid for 8 channels, it's a steal! It would mean that you could completely isolate your FOH and monitor feeds. I'm thinking of getting a couple for a small mobile recording rig.
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:47 am

Dave B wrote:I'm looking at the 1202 and I can't see any direct outs on the channels. As Sam says, there are inserts on 4 of the channels, so you could send 4 channels to the FOH by (ab)using those fine.

Mackie even suggest this in the manual!

On a more general note, I realise that some people may be happy with Y leads, but there is a low cost (and decent quality) solution to splitting mic signals from Orchid Electronics :

http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/micsplit.htm

For 215quid for 8 channels, it's a steal! It would mean that you could completely isolate your FOH and monitor feeds. I'm thinking of getting a couple for a small mobile recording rig.

+1 Orchid Electronics kit
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:02 am

audioshed1 wrote:What if I came out of each channel insert jack (using as direct-out) with TS cables...

You need to be very careful with this approach, because they are NOT direct outputs, they are inserts (Send/Return) sockets.

To use them as direct outputs you need to only half-insert your TS plugs, which is always an unreliable configuration. Any disturbance and you will either lose your 'direct' output signal, or your mixer signal path...

The safer and more secure way of doing this is to make up (or have made up for you) some special 'sniffer' cables which use a TRS plug for the mixer insert end, and a TS plug for the destination (IEM transmitter, in your case) end. The TRS plug is wired with the tip and ring connections shorted together, and that junction connected to the tip of the destination TS plug.

With this type of cable you can insert it fully into the insert socket, so that it is properly secure, and the shorted tip-ring contacts ensure the mixer channel's internal signal path is maintained correctly, while still feeding your secondary destination as a direct output.

H
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby Mike Shand » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:40 pm

In the days when I used analogue gear with real insert sockets I used to carry around a bag of TRS to TS socket adapters just in case, so I could use any TS TS cable of the appropriate length and plug it into the insert socket using the adapter. Works a treat.

E.g https://www.studiospares.com/Cables-Lea ... 595400.htm
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:43 pm

audioshed1 wrote:What if I came out of each channel insert jack (using as direct-out) with TS cables and went into a multi-channel DI box that could bring the Direct-out line level signal back down to mic-level

As others have mentioned, it would be far better to use a multi channel mic splitter rather than a multi channel DI box.
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Before Maplin's sad demise you could buy half a dozen TS-TS cables and half a dozen TRS jacks and make yourself a nice set of sniffer cables for less than £25.
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Re: IEM Mixing with Onstage Mixer

Postby audioshed1 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:16 pm

Dave B wrote:I'm looking at the 1202 and I can't see any direct outs on the channels. As Sam says, there are inserts on 4 of the channels, so you could send 4 channels to the FOH by (ab)using those fine.

On a more general note, I realise that some people may be happy with Y leads, but there is a low cost (and decent quality) solution to splitting mic signals from Orchid Electronics :

http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/micsplit.htm

For 215quid for 8 channels, it's a steal! It would mean that you could completely isolate your FOH and monitor feeds. I'm thinking of getting a couple for a small mobile recording rig.

Thank you Dave!
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