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stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm

What's the pros & cons of having independent stage monitoring v linking two together
can phase become an issue?

i have an allen & heath mix wizard with 6 Aux sends – 2x pre fade / 2x switched / 2x post fade ideally im wanting to have three independent stage monitors using yamaha 8ohm smv 15"
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Re: stage monitors

Postby AlecSp » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:04 pm

Far more important than any phasing issues (and it's really comb filtering you're thinking of), the biggest drawback to using linked monitors is that they have the same mix - unless you actively want that.

Your mixer can output up to 4 pre-fade mixes so, as long as you have the amplification available, then run each one separately. If not, then you need to decide where to compromise...
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:11 pm

[quote="AlecSp"

Your mixer can output up to 4 pre-fade mixes so, as long as you have the amplification available, then run each one separately. If not, then you need to decide where to compromise...[/quote]

Yes comb filtering thanks

i usually use 2x aux for fx normally im using aux 1 & 2 for monitors & 3& 4 for fx but i guess i could just use 5 & 6 auxs for fx .sometimes im asked to provide 3x independent monitors which at the moment i don't have so need to invest in some more gear i.e another monitor & power amp
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Wonks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm

Or a powered monitor.
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:46 pm

Wonks wrote:Or a powered monitor.

yes what's best a powered monitor OR passive with Power amp or just a preference thing ?

i have one passive & one powered at the moment but could do with another monitor,i don't suppose anyone is good with the mix wizard ? i have some things with that desk that have me scratching my head :headbang: mainly the routings for the pairs of channels & some auxs which i don't quite understand
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:25 pm

manleyelop wrote:yes what's best a powered monitor OR passive with Power amp or just a preference thing ?

Preference and convenience... but powered monitors are becoming a lot more popular and common. With a powered monitor you need to run signal and power lines to the box, but it's only the one box to rig and pack away. With a passive monitor you need to run a speaker cable across the stage, and find somewhere to put the power amp off-stage... and you have two big boxes to hump in and out of the van! ;-)

i don't suppose anyone is good with the mix wizard ? i have some things with that desk that have me scratching my head :headbang: mainly the routings for the pairs of channels & some auxs which i don't quite understand

Lots of people here are familiar with the WZ desks -- although there are significant differences between the different versions so you'll need to state which one you're using. I've always found A&H manuals pretty good and easy to follow, and they usually include decent block diagrams that usually make things like routing arrangements and aux functionality very clear.

What specifically do you want to know?
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:22 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Lots of people here are familiar with the WZ desks -- although there are significant differences between the different versions so you'll need to state which one you're using. I've always found A&H manuals pretty good and easy to follow, and they usually include decent block diagrams that usually make things like routing arrangements and aux functionality very clear.

What specifically do you want to know?

LOl i can never understand the allen & heath manuals :headbang:

im using the Mix wizard3 12:2 & also the Mix wizard4 16:2

my confusion is mainly around the St channels 1 to 6 can they all be used for ext fx ?
i never use the on board fx i don't like them much they sound horrible to me i would like to turn them off.

can i use the 1 to 6 aux's for ext fx ideally i want to have three independent auxs for stage monitors & two aux for ext fx

also what are the 4x auxs for top right of the desk?
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:38 pm

https://www.allen-heath.com/media/AP8665_1WZ412_16_user_guide.pdf

You really should take the time to go through the manual. The MixWizzes are superb desks with loads of good features. Far easier for you to spend time going through the manual rather than us trying to answer questions out of context. The manual explains how all the functions and facilities interact. That's far better than us giving you piecemeal answers.

... the answer to the '4 auxes' question can be found on P18 of the manual.

To configure the mixer as you want use auxes 1-4 for stage monitors - with 3 & 4 in 'pre' mode - and 5 & 6 for FX.
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:39 pm

manleyelop wrote:my confusion is mainly around the St channels 1 to 6 can they all be used for ext fx ?

Yes, in as much as they can all be routed to the stereo mix bus.

can i use the 1 to 6 aux's for ext fx ideally i want to have three independent auxs for stage monitors & two aux for ext fx

Stage monitors are usually fed from pre-fade auxes, and effects sends from post-fade. The WZ3 has six auxes, the first two are fixed pre-fade, the next two are switchable, and the last two are fixed post-fade. (Although there are internal jumpers that them all to be switchable, in any combination, if preferred).

So in your case, use 1, 2 , 3 and 4 (if needed), for the foldback monitors (with 3/4 set pre-fade), and 5/6 for the external effects sends.

also what are the 4x auxs for top right of the desk?

They are primarily for feeding the internal FX back out to the foldback monitors, so the vocalist can hear the reverb etc...

... but as Mike says, it really will pay you to read the manuals and study the block diagrams!
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:https://www.allen-heath.com/media/AP8665_1WZ412_16_user_guide.pdf

You really should take the time to go through the manual. The MixWizzes are superb desks with loads of good features. Far easier for you to spend time going through the manual rather than us trying to answer questions out of context. The manual explains how all the functions and facilities interact. That's far better than us giving you piecemeal answers.

... the answer to the '4 auxes' question can be found on P18 of the manual.
Everyone says that to me frustratingly but i just don't take the manual info in for some reason if i was shown i take the info easily ive read the manual many times but just get frustrated with it.im not lazy i just find the manual hard to follow
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:42 pm

manleyelop wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:https://www.allen-heath.com/media/AP8665_1WZ412_16_user_guide.pdf

You really should take the time to go through the manual. The MixWizzes are superb desks with loads of good features. Far easier for you to spend time going through the manual rather than us trying to answer questions out of context. The manual explains how all the functions and facilities interact. That's far better than us giving you piecemeal answers.

... the answer to the '4 auxes' question can be found on P18 of the manual.
Everyone says that to me frustratingly but i just don't take the manual info in for some reason if i was shown i take the info easily ive read the manual many times but just get frustrated with it

Where are you based?
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:45 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
Where are you based?

Hi mike east yorkshire im using the desk & all is well with it im just wanting to understand certain aspects of it better out of pure interest
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:47 pm

manleyelop wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:
Where are you based?

Hi mike east yorkshire im using the desk & all is well with it im just wanting to understand certain aspects of it better out of pure interest

Ah! Too far off my patch... if you were closer I'd have offered a 1:1 on an 'expenses only' basis.
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:51 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
manleyelop wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:
Where are you based?

Hi mike east yorkshire im using the desk & all is well with it im just wanting to understand certain aspects of it better out of pure interest

Ah! Too far off my patch... if you were closer I'd have offered a 1:1 on an 'expenses only' basis.

Much appreciated i would have really enjoyed that, iv'e always struggled with grasping manuals im smart but i have to work very hard at taking info in from them hence all the questions.i use the desk & it's great but would like to know more about it so it can become quite frustrating at times,im a gifted dude musician & engineer but i have to work hard to learn even though im eager too but hey that's life :bouncy: but then if my brain worked differently perhaps my musical side would not be so gifted
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:59 pm

manleyelop wrote:Much appreciated i would have really enjoyed that...

The beauty of the SOS forums is that we have kind and helpful folk all over the place! Calling members in the Yorkshire area... Eh up lads! Anyone able to help out? :-)

iv'e always struggled with grasping manuals im smart but i have to work very hard at taking info in from them hence all the questions.

I get that. Most manuals assume a certain level of background knowledge and a prescribed way of thinking, and unless you're on the same wavelength as the writer than can seem rather mysterious sometimes -- especially when it comes to the more obscure functionality.

It may help to read a more generalised approach to live sound equipment, and then see if that helps you to translate and understand the specifics of the MZ3/4 manuals.

Paul White's The SOS Guide to Live Sound is very readable and would provide a good grounding of most mixer concepts. Image

https://www.soundonsound.com/shop/books/sos-guide-live-sound

... and it's currently on offer from the SOS shop! :lol:
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
manleyelop wrote:Much appreciated i would have really enjoyed that...

The beauty of the SOS forums is that we have kind and helpful folk all over the place! Calling members in the Yorkshire area... Eh up lads! Anyone able to help out? :-)

iv'e always struggled with grasping manuals im smart but i have to work very hard at taking info in from them hence all the questions.

I get that. Most manuals assume a certain level of background knowledge and a prescribed way of thinking, and unless you're on the same wavelength as the writer than can seem rather mysterious sometimes -- especially when it comes to the more obscure functionality.

It may help to read a more generalised approach to live sound equipment, and then see if that helps you to translate and understand the specifics of the MZ3/4 manuals.

Paul White's The SOS Guide to Live Sound is very readable and would provide a good grounding of most mixer concepts. Image

https://www.soundonsound.com/shop/books/sos-guide-live-sound

... and it's currently on offer from the SOS shop! :lol:

Thanks Hugh ive used the desk many times but it's the smaller detail that frustrates me usually & with me being so interested that just adds to the frustration some manuals speak my language & others make no sense to me lol im more practical & grasp things when shown & when i can ask questions here & there.looks like the book is out of stock lol
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Wonks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:27 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Paul White's The SOS Guide to Live Sound is very readable and would provide a good grounding of most mixer concepts. Image

https://www.soundonsound.com/shop/books/sos-guide-live-sound

... and it's currently on offer from the SOS shop! :lol:


But unfortunately out of stock. :(
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Ah well... it's available from all good book retailers... and amazon!

H
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Re: stage monitors

Postby Wonks » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:11 pm

Just checked. £32.99 from Waterstones! :o :protest: :o
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Re: stage monitors

Postby manleyelop » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:39 pm

Wonks wrote:Just checked. £32.99 from Waterstones! :o :protest: :o

Bloody hell that's not cheap :protest:

£20.76 from amazon though im reading back through the Mix wizard WZ3 manual again but slowly it's the ST 1 to 6 routing options that still confuse me but i'll get there.
The manual seems to suggest St1 to 5 is for returning fx to the LR mix but ST2 to 6 is just a return
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