You are here

Using single EV speaker with stereo.

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:28 pm

Hi all I hope someone can answer my query. I help my Daughter in her singing and have purchased 2 EV evolve speakers and a dynacord CMS-1000 mixing desk to replace some older gear we had. At some venues we really only need to use one of the Evolves but the backing tracks are sometimes in stereo.
My question is: Is it OK to use the RH and LH outputs from the desk into input 1 and input 2 on the Evolve to get the full music requirement? I know some are using a "Y" lead and so joining the 2 outputs together into 1 speaker input but I feel this is the wrong way to do this.

I have emailed EV direct several times but failed to ever get a reply.

Thanks
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:42 pm

Yes, what you suggest (feeding mixer L & R into EV inputs 1 & 2) is a simple & sensible way to do this.

I suspect there's a chance that using a Y adaptor might damage the mixer outputs - but doing it your suggested way will be fine.

Rob
Rob Kirkwood
Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Yes, you could certainly run two cables from the mixer left/right outputs to two line inputs of a single active speaker. That would work perfectly well, with the speaker's inputs acting to mix the left and right channels together into mono.

...but it's not the most practical or intelligent solution! ;-)

The alternative and much better solution woul be to use your mixer's built-in mono output facility to create the required mono signal and provide it at a dedicated master mono output socket.

You only need to run a single cable from that dedicated master mono output to the active speaker.

Remember to set the mono output to be post fader, and turn up the mono level control.

It's detailed in the manual:https://www.dynacord.com/binary/Anl_CMS1000.pdf

Regarding Y-cords, they are fine for splitting a single source to feed two destinations simultaneously, but should NEVER be used to mix two signals together. There is a real risk of damaging or destroying the output circuitry of the source devices!

To function as a passive signal mixer, a special dedicated y-cord needs to be custom made with built-in mixing resistors which serve to protect the source devices' output circuitry.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:29 pm

The mixer we have doesn't have that mono output?
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:05 am

Okay. Different generation of CMS1000...

There are several ways of generating a mono output from the mixer, but I suspect you'll need to use two separate line input channels for your stereo backing track, rather than a single stereo line channel.

If you plug the left source device output into one channel, and the right source into another, then set the channel pan-pots of both channels to the centre, you'll have a mono mix of both channels appearing at both console outputs, and so you need run only a single cable from either output to the active speaker.

Alternatively, if you need stereo at the main outputs (for example, if you need to make a stereo recording), then you could connect the source as above, but set the pan-pots hard left/right on the two input channels to maintain normal stereo at the desk maIn outputs.

To generate a mono mix for the single active speaker, you can use a post-fade aux send on each of the two input channels. Just select an appropriate aux send and turn up the send controls on both source channels. Then turn up the relevant aux master control and plug a cable between the aux send output and the speaker.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am

Thanks, that would work. But is there any problem in using both inputs on the speaker? I will try both methods and see which is easiest, i.e only needing to use a single fader or a pair to control level.
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:12 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Yes, you could certainly run two cables from the mixer left/right outputs to two line inputs of a single active speaker. That would work perfectly well, with the speaker's inputs acting to mix the left and right channels together into mono.

...but it's not the most practical or intelligent solution! ;-)

I think that even with the wink emoji this last line is an unfortunate choice of words that could well scare the living daylights out of Rockbyter!

In their particular circumstance, running the 2 cables into 2 inputs of 1 active speaker (instead of 2 speakers) IS the most practical solution, and is also an intelligent solution to their particular problem - meaning they can run 1 or 2 speakers depending on the venue they're in without changing the way they use the mixer in any way, and with the benefit that they're not going to kill anything in the process.

Yes, I do appreciate that you're explaining the 'proper' way to get a stereo signal into a mixer and out again as a mono feed, partly for the benefit of other readers who happen upon this thread - but I fear you may have made Rockbyter think the original solution proposed is a stupid one - when it isn't.

Rob
Rob Kirkwood
Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:18 am

Rockbyter wrote:But is there any problem in using both inputs on the speaker?

No, none -- other than the need to run two cables and setup two inputs on the speaker.

It's just the general principle that mixing is best done in the mixer, where you can control what's going on, rather than at the speaker where you can't (easily).

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:24 am

Once again thanks for the inputs. I will test both methods. I appreciate that mixing should be done in the mixer so may well settle for this method.
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:27 am

Rob Kirkwood wrote:I think that even with the wink emoji this last line is an unfortunate choice of words that could well scare the living daylights out of Rockbyter!

No offence intended, and I didn't mean 'not intelligent' as in 'stupid', I meant it as in 'not sophisticated' or 'not elegant'. Unfortunate choice of words, as you say.

However, it seems to me perverse to have a (large) mixer but rely on a speaker to do the mixing... As well as the unnecessary duplication of having to run two cables to the same place.

But I do take your (very valid) point of a potential benefit of sending both channels to the speaker being not having to change the way the mixer is set up and operated.

As I said above, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the dual feed approach, but it's not the way most experienced users would solve that particular problem.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:27 am

most experienced users


This is the difference and why I appreciate the input. I have no real experience in live sound or with the equipment but I am learning all the time. I do prefer the word elegant though :D
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:44 am

:thumbup: :D
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:44 pm

I have settled on the more Elegant solution and for single speaker venues will use 2 left/mono inputs on the stereo section with EQ set the same for both then take a single master to the speaker. Means she has 2 faders to adjust the music level instead of 1 but as said, mixing should be done on the mixer rather than on the speaker. Added advantage is that for venues where we need to have each speaker pointing in different directions we can use this method to ensure the backing track is the same for everyone.

Thanks very much for the replies and advice, learning continues...
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rob Kirkwood » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:02 pm

Elegant! :thumbup: :)

Rob
Rob Kirkwood
Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Rockbyter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:12 am

As a follow up, I found an easier way on the Dynacord CMS desks. There are 2 further outputs marked master B. These can be set as Mono and post fader with the level control set to 5 these become 2 identical summed outputs of the master mix but both mono, looks like non balanced but for the short distance involved I don't see any problem. This might help any other owners of these mixers needing an easy mono output.

Image
Rockbyter
New here
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Using single EV speaker with stereo.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:12 am

:D Excellent.

I was surprised when you told me earlier there was no mono master facility. Glad to see the feature is still there, albeit in a slightly different form.

I've checked the schematics for the DMS1000-3 model you appear to be using, and it shows that the Master B outputs are balanced. They are of the impedance-balanced type, as opposed to the active symmetrical or floating transformer-balanced types.

In fact all of the console's balanced outputs are impedance-balanced -- Master A, Master B, Moni, Aux, and FX! There is no difference at all between those on TRS sockets and those on XLRs.

A lot of people are suspicious of impedance-balanced outputs, but they are wodely employed and have some worthwhile advantages. The main one -- which is particularly relevant for equipment like this console -- is that they can be used equally happily with both balanced and unbalanced connections and maintain the same signal level regardless of the destination type. (Most active symmetrical outputs would appear 6dB quieter when feeding an unbalanced destination.) Impedance-balanced sources retain all the same interference-rejecting properties of normal active-symmetrical or transformer-balanced connections, too.

So, for your application, I'd definitely recommend running a balanced cable to your speaker, with a TRS-XLRm adaptor cable if necessary.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users