You are here

Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby hobbyist » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:42 pm

AlecSp wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I am working on the music director at our church to do all this.
When we succeed in doing it I will let you know how it was received.
But surely, if the technique's going to be so successful, why do you need to work on him. Just do it, and then he'll be impressed when everyone says how wonderful it is and how it's improved their experience as a punter.

hobbyist wrote:I already got them to put compression on the louder end so it is quite a bit less now. Some feedback problems helped me sell that idea:)
Because compression is well renowned for resolving feedback problems...


I have no way to change anything on the board by myself.

And I would not just do it without his approval as he is in charge and responsible for everything that happens.

Yes. The high end compression was a gimme.
hobbyist
Regular
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:52 am

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:05 am

Dynamic range is the life in music, without it's just noise. There may be some defence for reduced DR in a noisy environment like a car when listening to classical or acoustic music.

I have edited the above to reflect the fact that you may (or may not) have a hearing condition similar to that suggested in the other thread, if so you have my sympathy and I hope you can find solutions that improve things for you

WRT your preacher vs. your choir, that is a tech/performance issue, the preacher needs to learn to 'perform' rather than just talk (though getting him to do so may be an uphill struggle) but, IME, if the 'performer' has something interesting to say the audience/congregation will shut up and listen.

FWIW I have heard two guys with unamplified acoustic guitars captivate an audience in a 1500 seat auditorium in the middle of a lively country rock band set. The DR between the acoustic tuns and the band in full flight was way more than one would usually experience but you could have heard a pin drop in the acoustic spot and you could hear every note.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12704
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:09 am

hobbyist wrote:
Bob Bickerton wrote:
Bob wrote:
OK just to entertain your posit for a moment:

If you process the audio as you suggest and play it back at whatever level YOU think is appropriate - do you think it’s possible that some people will still think it’s too loud and others will think it’s too quiet?

If not pray tell what your magic SPL level is, how you manage to select people who all agree on what the optimum level should be and how it is possible that you manage to seat your entire audience at the same distance from the sound system.

Bob


hobbyist wrote:I think there is a reasonably wide range in the middle that would satisfy almost everyone *if* we got rid of the extreme loud on the top and we pulled up the extreme lows on the bottom of the SPL range.

If not, there would still be more people that are happy.

How many people say anything about where the average is anyway?

Some complain about loud. Some complain about soft. Never heard a complaint about the average.

You have avoided answering my question - what is this magic SPL you speak of that satisfies everyone and also how do you manage to deliver it to every seat in the house?

I believe you do not have an answer..........

Bob

You can believe anything you want.

Nothing magic. Just use your ear and be reasonable.

However, I would say from reading tech papers for max intelligibility that 65dB would be spot on.

So you don’t have an answer - just quoting an internet search again. Ah well......

Bob
User avatar
Bob Bickerton
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby hobbyist » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:15 am

Bob Bickerton wrote:
hobbyist wrote:
Bob Bickerton wrote:
Bob wrote:
OK just to entertain your posit for a moment:

If you process the audio as you suggest and play it back at whatever level YOU think is appropriate - do you think it’s possible that some people will still think it’s too loud and others will think it’s too quiet?

If not pray tell what your magic SPL level is, how you manage to select people who all agree on what the optimum level should be and how it is possible that you manage to seat your entire audience at the same distance from the sound system.

Bob


hobbyist wrote:I think there is a reasonably wide range in the middle that would satisfy almost everyone *if* we got rid of the extreme loud on the top and we pulled up the extreme lows on the bottom of the SPL range.

If not, there would still be more people that are happy.

How many people say anything about where the average is anyway?

Some complain about loud. Some complain about soft. Never heard a complaint about the average.

You have avoided answering my question - what is this magic SPL you speak of that satisfies everyone and also how do you manage to deliver it to every seat in the house?

I believe you do not have an answer..........

Bob

You can believe anything you want.

Nothing magic. Just use your ear and be reasonable.

However, I would say from reading tech papers for max intelligibility that 65dB would be spot on.

So you don’t have an answer - just quoting an internet search again. Ah well......

Bob

I do not have proof yet.
But I believe just as firmly that I am right as you do the opposite.

You have nothing nada zip zilch squat bubkes zero ......

I have a tech paper based on measured data that says what the appropriate SPL level is for us. I trust that more than your blatant putdown attempts.
hobbyist
Regular
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:52 am

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:29 am

Perhaps real world experience counts for something?

Bob
User avatar
Bob Bickerton
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: Loudness - more than LUFS/LKFS but measuring SPL other than A or C weighting

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:49 am

I don't see any point in pursuing this any further gents... We are beyond all reason and sense!

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 27498
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Previous