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linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

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linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:19 pm
by rvandenb
Hi,

I am a happy customer of the AER Domino 2 for several years, but sometimes I need more microphone entries.
And I do not wish to use a mixing desk…
That is why I now just bought a second Domino 2.A :bouncy:

However, I have a question:
how can I make sure that all microphones are heard through both amps ?
I found a schema in the Domino 2.A user manual in section 5.7 "Example for the linking of AER-amps via the insert connection”
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1252780/Aer-Domino-2a.html
It appears that this linking requires a special Y-cable ….which is difficult to find in a music shop around Brussels! At least, the shops never heard of such a cable :/
Can you tell me where I can find this cable, maybe on-line ?

Alternatively, does the linking work with a normal Y-cable for inserts (TRS-Dual TS) ?
Can you think of other alternatives ?

PS. I also send a email to AER, but I'm not sure they will respond quickly.
And of course I trust that the Sound-On-Sound forums will respond faster ;)

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:59 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
The diagram you refer to shows standard insert or Y-cables, with a TRS (Stereo) plug at one end connecting to two TS (mono) plugs at the other.

The only note of caution I'd raise it that it appears, from the block schematic of the amp, that the signal connected to the (FX) Return socket is mixed with the amp's own sources and appears at both the Line Out and Insert Send outputs... so there may well be a potential there for a howlround! Set levels with care when you first configure the system!

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:40 pm
by rvandenb
The schematic shows 2 TRS plugs, or am I wrong?

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:30 pm
by AlecSp
Isn't buying an extra £1,600 combo rather a pricey way of avoiding buying a mixer?

And, while we're about it, where's my twitching smilie...?

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:32 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
My apologies! I misunderstood the diagram. You're quite right -- it will need to be custom-made cables, although any decent music shop tech should be able to knock them up for you easily enough if you're not keen on wielding a soldering iron yourself.

I hadn't realised that the FX Return input is stereo, so to make sure the same signal reaches both channels the tip and ring terminals are linked together in the return TRS plug. The diagram does try to show that, but its not very clear and I misunderstood it.

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:55 am
by rvandenb
AlecSp wrote:Isn't buying an extra £1,600 combo rather a pricey way of avoiding buying a mixer?
Probably you are right...
However, when I came across a nearly-new AER Domino 2.A, I negotiated the price ( € 1,000) for my brother-in-law aka the singer.
Which means the singer can practice at home with the nearly-new AER, and I can keep mine.
And I should finally mention I prefer the musical quality of the AER preamps to my mixers preamps. At I avoid the setup of an extra device.

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:20 am
by rvandenb
Hugh Robjohns wrote:My apologies! I misunderstood the diagram. You're quite right -- it will need to be custom-made cables, although any decent music shop tech should be able to knock them up for you easily enough if you're not keen on wielding a soldering iron yourself.

I hadn't realised that the FX Return input is stereo, so to make sure the same signal reaches both channels the tip and ring terminals are linked together in the return TRS plug. The diagram does try to show that, but its not very clear and I misunderstood it.
Thank you for your help Hugh!

I admit I do not fully understand the diagram and block schema - and I try to avoid the soldering iron, unless it's the only option left over.

I experienced the following with a standard Y-cable for insert:
* continuous source plugged into amp 1 (loopstation)
* connect amp 1 to amp 2 via a standard insert Y-cable (insert =>line out + return)
result: the sound came from the second amp only (inserts are serial)

Do I need to connect amp 2 back to amp 1 with a second Y-cable ?
Or is the solution the custom Y-cable ?

Re: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:24 am
by Hugh Robjohns
The linking scheme shown on page 11 of the manual appears to work like this:

Amp1's (mono) output is taken from its Insert Send, and passed to Amp2's FX Return (left/right).

Amp2's (mono) output is taken from its Line Out (which is exactly the same signal as the Insert Send), and passed to Amp1's Insert Return.

The Insert Send and Line Out signals carry a summed-mono version of the amp's stereo output which appears to be a mix of the three input channels, plus the FX Return and the Aux input.

So, Amp2 will be able to mix Amp1s sources with its own, and Amp1 will be able to do the same but, as I said previously, the risk of howl-rounds with this configuration is very high because the outputs are derived after the returns instead of before.

The only way I can see to bring the return signal back in after the amp-linking output -- and thus avoid any risk of howl-round -- would be to use the Effect send to access the sources.

So Amp1 FX Send out (with the relevant sources selected, of course) goes to Amp2 FX Return, and Amp2 FX Send goes to Amp1 FX Return. That way, both amps receive the other amp's sources, but there's no risk of feedback because the return signals don't appear on the FX sends.

You'll still need custom cables, but simpler mono-TS (for the FX Send) to Stereo TRS (for the FX Return.

Solved: linking of AER Domino amps via the insert connection

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:12 pm
by rvandenb
Many thanks for pointing me to the right direction!
Here is how to create the custom Y-cable, based on a standard TRS insert cable:
* Check the colour code of the TRS side. In my case the colours are red and blue.
* Keep the TRS side untouched
* Check the colour code of the TS side 1 (later connected to line out). In my case both red and blue were soldered together to the Tip.
* Cut off the red cable from the TS side 1
* Find a TRS connector
* Cut off the TS side 2 and replace with a TRS connector (later connected to return)
* Connect the red cable both to the Tip AND to the Ring of the TRS connector
* Measure the resulting tip, ring and sleeve in Ohm.
This one cable should do it to bring the signal from Amp 1 to Amp 2 and back, so you hear everything from Amp 1 on Amp 1 AND on Amp 2.
I will test next band rehearsal and let you know it works correctly.

Keep up the excellent work :clap: