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digital mixers - shows and scenes

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digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Dave71 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:50 am

Hello all

Still a bit confused over shows, scenes & show files so was looking for some clarification.

Here's some scenarios to see if i'm on the right track.

This weekend I'm doing sound in an children's entertainment tent and will have the following for various performances throughout the 2 days (A&H Qu-16)
several mics
DJ stereo line in
spare stereo line in

So...I'm thinking I should create and save a show called "Harewood Ent" with my 1st layer setup for a bunch of vocal mics and the stereo lines. Within this show I'll save a scene for the different performances, updating as I go then recalling when they do their 2nd/3rd sets over the weekend.

Next weekend I'm doing a simple band gig and will have my 1st layer setup to a standard config - kick, snare, hats etc etc. Again i'll create a new show called "standard rig", saving a scene once I've got the basics setup then create a new scene for each band.

After that my band has a different strip layout which I'm recreating based on an exisiting layout on our Mackie Dl32r. To make things easier for him, the guitarist/sound man started with the vocals on 1 finishing with the electric kit 16. New show "Sugartown" with scenes for different venues?

Lastly - bands bringing show files. This confuses me as a pal of mine says he wants to bring a show file for his band who also use a Q-16. Now his layout is different again to any of the above so how would that work. If I start with my basic config and his doesn't match what's the score with that - a re-plumb or try convincing him I know what I'm doing and "It'll be reet"

Thanks

Dave
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:14 am

Observations would suggest there are few hard and fast rules on this. For instance, I do:

1-8 - downstage (vox/DI) and aux (MP3) in,
9-16 upstage (kit and backline).

Lots of folks do 1-? kit but that looks like a throwback to ye olde analogue days of multicore and desks the size of desks.

It would be worth requesting a stage plot for anyone wanting to bring their own show file so that you can set up accordingly, usually good practice anyway.

I always find something useful in other folks' plots and plans, sometimes it's a new way to work, other times it's confirmation that my way is fine.

I like to set up a show, name it by venue/date, then save auxiliary scenes for each act or section of the show. All can be exported for later recall.

Sounds like you're thinking along the right lines, though.
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:54 am

Good digital mixers are very flexible and you can basically set-up snapshots at various levels - channel to full desk - without too much bother. The key thing is to keep it organised - I preferred to have it written down - and to know what you're doing.

Regarding people/bands bringing their own presets... that's fine as long as their sound-person will be driving the desk. Like most of us I guess I had my own - idiosyncratic - way of configuring things with regard to what went on what channel. If you're then faced with an unfamiliar layout, in the heat of the moment it could be all to easy to go unconsciously to the wrong fader. (I was never totally at home having to use a pre-configured desk...)

OTOH you may be cleverer than me and take all this in your stride! :lol:
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Dave71 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:13 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:. The key thing is to keep it organised - I preferred to have it written down - and to know what you're doing.

I think if I truly knew what I was doing in life in general, I'd probably be relaxing by a pool with a cool beverage this weekend, not watching "Able Mabel".....3 times.

Thanks for the 'input' so far, I shall 'channel' this new found knowledge!

Dave
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:50 pm

It should be possible to reroute the inputs you have patched to the channel layout the other guy wants* to avoid re-plugging the whole desk (which is a non starter mid gig) but I'd send him the input list and let him adjust his show file to suit, re routing the desk mid gig is also something to be avoided if possible. And is the mate in the band or their sound guy? If the latter leave him to it (but make sure your show is saved and forbid him from physically re-plugging anything).

* e.g. I use 1-8 for drums but its trivial to set up a scene to send inputs 1-8 to channels 9-16 (as I would do if shufflebeat and I were sharing a desk) if you have a few minutes to spare so his drum channel were where he expected them to be..
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:31 pm

Good points Sam - especially about 'No Replugging'. That really is a no-no!
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby hobbyist » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:09 pm

Dave71 wrote:Hello all

Still a bit confused over shows, scenes & show files so was looking for some clarification.

Here's some scenarios to see if i'm on the right track.

This weekend I'm doing sound in an children's entertainment tent and will have the following for various performances throughout the 2 days (A&H Qu-16)
several mics
DJ stereo line in
spare stereo line in

So...I'm thinking I should create and save a show called "Harewood Ent" with my 1st layer setup for a bunch of vocal mics and the stereo lines. Within this show I'll save a scene for the different performances, updating as I go then recalling when they do their 2nd/3rd sets over the weekend.

Next weekend I'm doing a simple band gig and will have my 1st layer setup to a standard config - kick, snare, hats etc etc. Again i'll create a new show called "standard rig", saving a scene once I've got the basics setup then create a new scene for each band.

After that my band has a different strip layout which I'm recreating based on an exisiting layout on our Mackie Dl32r. To make things easier for him, the guitarist/sound man started with the vocals on 1 finishing with the electric kit 16. New show "Sugartown" with scenes for different venues?

Lastly - bands bringing show files. This confuses me as a pal of mine says he wants to bring a show file for his band who also use a Q-16. Now his layout is different again to any of the above so how would that work. If I start with my basic config and his doesn't match what's the score with that - a re-plumb or try convincing him I know what I'm doing and "It'll be reet"

Thanks

Dave

We use the Qu32 at church but basically the same as your mixer.

AFAIK you can only have one show. That has up to 100 scenes.
The docs also imply you can save other shows on the Qudrive but only have one show in the device at a time.

The documentation implies that a show is like say EG our Sunday AM service. The scenes would be the settings for each part of the service.

sample to illustrate use of scenes:
scene 1 - introductory music
scene 2 - announcements
scene 3 - song by all
scene 4 - choir
scene 5 - special music live w/ quartet
scene 6 - preacherman talks
scene 7 - song by all
scene 8 - postlude music

we have several other scenes depending on the service that day.
so it would be easier to have a set of all scenes in order so we can just go to the next one on the list as needed instead of making special shows for each variation.

If you are doing a broadway musical the show would be the musical itself. The scenes would be the sequence of events with the various songs and dialog that make up the musical. Again in sequence of performance to help the FOH operator to quickly set up the baseline for the scene which makes it easier for him to tweak things if appropriate.

I think what you describe basically fits that pattern.

As to the bring your own show, I believe that unless everything were wired the same and used the same that it would not work on your specific Qu16.

You could try it early to see if it is close enough and tweak anything that is needed. I would not go live without testing it carefully.
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:22 pm

I stand corrected, up to 2016, at least, the local inputs on the Qu16 can't be assigned to different numbered channels (but dSnake inputs can if you are using one). However, you can achieve much the same thing using the custom layer (which allows any channel, aux, buss or WHY to be placed on any of the physical faders).
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:36 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:...you can achieve much the same thing using the custom layer (which allows any channel, aux, buss or WHY to be placed on any of the physical faders).

+1

My layer MO on the QuPac:

1 - downstage (as previous), FX returns
2 - upstage (as previous)
3 - VCAs (vox, melody instruments, all wedges, groups (vox, kit, misc), playback.

This has evolved over time and works for me, your requirements and tastes might dictate different.
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Dave71 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:05 am

Great stuff, some very useful comments - as always. Was having a tinker last night and created 3 shows with some basic starting scenes and then some enhancements, routing to dca's, HPF's for vocals etc.

The interface on the qu-16 is a bit confusing when it comes to shows/scences so just need to play a bit more to get my head around it but I think im on the right track with saving then transferring/recalling to/from usb

think the custom layer will be very useful, especially since it can be locked
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:32 pm

Dave71 wrote:Great stuff, some very useful comments - as always. Was having a tinker last night and created 3 shows with some basic starting scenes and then some enhancements, routing to dca's, HPF's for vocals etc.

The interface on the qu-16 is a bit confusing when it comes to shows/scences so just need to play a bit more to get my head around it but I think im on the right track with saving then transferring/recalling to/from usb

think the custom layer will be very useful, especially since it can be locked


Hmmmmmmmmmm..................

What is confusing.

I was brand new to shows/scenes concent, and to the Qu but it seemed fairly obvious to me. Could experience and thinking like your old analog mixer worked be what is confusing you?

Only thing unclear to me is what is not saved with a scene that could get changed without realising it. For sure, everything I seem to care about is saved and recalled exactly.
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby Dave71 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:35 am

Hmmmmmmmmmm..................

What is confusing

I think its the fact that you can't save shows on the QU, only to an external device, making the file path a bit less obvious. At home I was creating shows and scenes and updating/swapping said shows, not something you'd ideally do in a live environment so was getting a bit lost. Daft as it may sound, I've named shows using capitals and scenes in lower case

I've been using a Mackie DL for quite a while now with a bit of time on an ilive. I'm just not used to the interface on the QU with it being literally delivered on Monday. I can see how it works but need to spend time getting used to the workflow.
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Re: digital mixers - shows and scenes

Postby hobbyist » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:25 pm

Dave71 wrote:
Hmmmmmmmmmm..................

What is confusing

I think its the fact that you can't save shows on the QU, only to an external device, making the file path a bit less obvious. At home I was creating shows and scenes and updating/swapping said shows, not something you'd ideally do in a live environment so was getting a bit lost. Daft as it may sound, I've named shows using capitals and scenes in lower case

I've been using a Mackie DL for quite a while now with a bit of time on an ilive. I'm just not used to the interface on the QU with it being literally delivered on Monday. I can see how it works but need to spend time getting used to the workflow.


True.

You can save shows to the Qudrive
but only have one in the box that is active at a time.
So you have to load the show you want if you have several on the usb.
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