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Laptop live? Never again.

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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby MOF » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:53 pm

hitting all the wrong buttons

Hitting all the right buttons, but not necessarily in the right order, surely!!! :lol:

Apologies to Andre Preview, Eric and Ern.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby Watchmaker » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:55 pm

BJG145 wrote: Windows decided that it couldn't wait any longer to start installing updates half an hour before I left...

The model wherein the operating system is provided "as a service" is incredibly risky for everyone except the rentier. One wonders, how exactly does Microsoft make money? The answer is by treating its customers as its commodity base, which doesn't pan out well for the customer.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby Dave B » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:52 pm

garrettendi wrote:I've been sorely tempted to do this with a computer and amp sims for my guitars... I never use a real amp at home and the amp sims are sometimes as good as the real thing...

Worth noting that Max / SSG does this every once in a while for open mic nights and is perfectly happy with his MBP and Focusrite Forte...
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby The Elf » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:28 pm

BJG145 wrote:The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

I don't mind troubleshooting this stuff when there's time and space...but if you're pulling it out of a bag in a crowded room and trying to get set up and ready to go while the band's warming up it's hopeless.
iI can only tell you my milage does vary greatly!

I switch on, run Cantabile and... play. Simple as that!
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby MOF » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:32 pm

The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

You start fault finding as far back in the chain as possible and work your way logically to the final output i.e. speakers.
The midi controller and DAW host should have a midi input window that flashes with every key/drum hit.
You can buy/make a 5 pin din led checker to see if devices are transmitting midi data.
Then once you’ve assigned your instrument you should see it on the meter of the channel and then the output when you’ve assigned its outputs (this could all be pre-saved as a song arrangement).
Then you make sure someone hasn’t muted the inputs to the desk.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby qUE@3rdEvent » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:01 pm

Most of the name acts will have a setup specifically for the performance (likely provided as a package by a supplier), there's a photo somewhere on the interwebs with Guetta and a tons of Apple Laptops in front of him incase one falls. I've been to gigs where an act's laptops crash mid set and it the usual startup sound over a large PA and a minute or so of dead air.

Trouble is like you say, unless you're a tech. and you've absolutely screwed down your setup to a custom OS and have everything streamlined, you're basically asking a general use operating system with likely unoptimised software to perform the job of hardware. So it's inevitable you get problems. This and you get into complex harmonics or subsonics, onboard DACs just sound pants.

It's the price you pay for cheap portability.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby OneWorld » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:06 pm

BJG145 wrote:The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

I don't mind troubleshooting this stuff when there's time and space...but if you're pulling it out of a bag in a crowded room and trying to get set up and ready to go while the band's warming up it's hopeless.

That is exactly it, too many variables to be factored in and people saying "Well I've never had a problem" doesn't fix a thing. I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby MOF » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:12 pm

I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

This doesn’t address the OP’s problem, that of triggering a software instrument from a midi controller.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby CS70 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:12 pm

OneWorld wrote:
BJG145 wrote: I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

Having used three setups for recording - to DAW on a pc, to hard disk recorder and to an hard disk connected to the TouchMix, I find that I much rather prefer the first.

The reason is simply visual feedback. A laptop large screen can be seen when performing and you have a reassuring waveform forming in front of you showing that the thing is actually recording.

With the hard disk recorder, there was very little saying we were recording, and the Touchmix screen is so small that I always have to get nearby to ensure it was still going (plus, it had the occasional short dropout.. it's a computer, after all).

Not sure about live performance. I guess one's gotta remember to disable the screen saver.. :-)
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby OneWorld » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:15 pm

Watchmaker wrote:
BJG145 wrote: Windows decided that it couldn't wait any longer to start installing updates half an hour before I left...

The model wherein the operating system is provided "as a service" is incredibly risky for everyone except the rentier. One wonders, how exactly does Microsoft make money? The answer is by treating its customers as its commodity base, which doesn't pan out well for the customer.

Yep, the customer is bottom of the shidheap, that being said, more and more, an OS aspires to be all things to all people, from serious business stuff to games and gimmickery and all things in between. I cannot understand why Microsoft release a lean and mean, no auto-update, flotsom and jetsom 'services' running, to the general public (I believe there are editions of Win10 that are such but sold to big companies on a volume licence)
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby OneWorld » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:17 pm

CS70 wrote:
OneWorld wrote:
BJG145 wrote: I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

Having used three setups for recording - to DAW on a pc, to hard disk recorder and to an hard disk connected to the TouchMix, I find that I much rather prefer the first.

The reason is simply visual feedback. A laptop large screen can be seen when performing and you have a reassuring waveform forming in front of you showing that the thing is actually recording.

With the hard disk recorder, there was very little saying we were recording, and the Touchmix screen is so small that I always have to get nearby to ensure it was still going (plus, it had the occasional short dropout.. it's a computer, after all).

Not sure about live performance. I guess one's gotta remember to disable the screen saver.. :-)

A hard disk recorder for playback, or even one of the later digital mixers, the QU series come to mind, they record and playback from a USB key, though not at the same time but surely a 'performance' laptop would not be playing back a track and recording too?
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby OneWorld » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:20 pm

MOF wrote:
I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

This doesn’t address the OP’s problem, that of triggering a software instrument from a midi controller.

Record it at home, play it back at the gig
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby MarkPAman » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:56 pm

OneWorld wrote:Record it at home, play it back at the gig

Then we're back to this question...

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=68896
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby merlyn » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:15 pm

OneWorld wrote:I cannot understand why Microsoft release a lean and mean, no auto-update, flotsom and jetsom 'services' running, to the general public (I believe there are editions of Win10 that are such but sold to big companies on a volume licence)

I take it you meant don't release.

One way of looking at it is that home users are beta testing Windows 10 for the actual version -- the enterprise version.
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Re: Laptop live? Never again.

Postby Wonks » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:29 pm

merlyn wrote:One way of looking at it is that home users are beta testing Windows 10 for the actual version -- the enterprise version.

That once was the case, but Enterprise users of Windows also had the Home editions (at hoe of course) and they often liked the new features in the Home editions and so asked for them to be brought out quicker in the Enterprise versions. So they are pretty much brought out at the same time now, though he Enterprise versions have more control on how they are rolled out within the company by the IT department.
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