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Wired in ear monitor setup question

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Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:51 am

We’re an Australian duo looking into getting 2 wired in ear monitors for live performance, but have run into a bit of confusion regarding the setup.

We’re looking at the ‘Behringer P2 powerplay’ systems.

https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... P2/p/P0CH4

What we’re not sure about is - could we plug 2 of the Behringer systems directly into the back of our ‘Roland Street Cube EX’ amp, or would we require an additional mixer?

https://www.roland.com/au/products/cube_street_ex/

It’s important to us that we can hear in stereo through our headphones, not sure if this affects which cables and inputs/outputs from the amp we would need to use.

Thank you for any advice on this!
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby blinddrew » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:49 pm

Do you need a different signal/mix in each set of headphones?

P.S. welcome to the forums. :)
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:40 pm

Is the StreetCube your only PA? If not what do you use it for and what is your main PA?
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:17 am

blinddrew wrote:Do you need a different signal/mix in each set of headphones?

P.S. welcome to the forums. :)

No, we both sing and play guitar, so I think the same mix for both of us would be fine.

P.S. Thanks for your warm welcome! :)
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:20 am

Sam Spoons wrote:Is the StreetCube your only PA? If not what do you use it for and what is your main PA?

The Street Cube is our only PA.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby forumuser908065 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:41 am

Yes and no.

All you need to connect up is a custom cable with 1/4" unbalanced TR at one end, and XLR male at the other. That's the easy part.

The harder part will be adjusting your expectations. Hearing *real* stereo will be a bit more complex and expensive that you might want.

Not sure how important real stereo given that you're probably using mono instruments, there's no real balance or pan control, etc.

For example, your P2 takes a mono XLR but drives both your left and right ears. So mono through both ears. I'm not aware of any similar product that does real stereo.

If it were me, I'd get two of the aforementioned custom cables, plug one each into the L and R line outs, and see if you like it.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:36 am

forumuser908065 wrote:Yes and no.

All you need to connect up is a custom cable with 1/4" unbalanced TR at one end, and XLR male at the other. That's the easy part.

The harder part will be adjusting your expectations. Hearing *real* stereo will be a bit more complex and expensive that you might want.

Not sure how important real stereo given that you're probably using mono instruments, there's no real balance or pan control, etc.

For example, your P2 takes a mono XLR but drives both your left and right ears. So mono through both ears. I'm not aware of any similar product that does real stereo.

If it were me, I'd get two of the aforementioned custom cables, plug one each into the L and R line outs, and see if you like it.

I see what you’re saying.

Do you think I could use regular guitar cables (rather than the custom XLR to TR) to connect the P2’s to the amp, seeing that the P2 has an XLR-TRS Jack combo socket, or would that not work?

Thank you so much for your advice, it’s really appreciated!

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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Do you use backing tracks? If not, and as the Streetcube is your only PA (so you won't be playing particularly loud or to big audiences), what benefit do you feel you'll get from using IEMs?
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Wonks » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:04 pm

Can I just suggest something like this as an alternative to the two Behringer units https://www.scan.co.uk/products/m-audio ... evel-boost as it can feed two sets of wired headphones/IEMs and only needs a single input? You may need to use some extension leads for your IEMs (though you may have needed some form of long leads with the Behringer units anyway).

Then use a cable like this to feed the unit. This provide a stereo feed to the IEMs for any backing tracks you use, plus a mono vocals and instruments . https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-STEREO-6 ... 9677&psc=1
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Dan LB » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:26 pm

forumuser908065 wrote:For example, your P2 takes a mono XLR but drives both your left and right ears. So mono through both ears. I'm not aware of any similar product that does real stereo.

The P2 can indeed take a mono balanced XLR or TRS feed and drive both ears with a mono signal......

BUT it can also take an unbalanced stereo feed on XLR or TRS and drive the IEMs with true stereo.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby shufflebeat » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:26 pm

The conversation seems to be concentrating on connections only and in that sense the information is correct. However, one of the reasons why proper IEMs are not cheap is that they are not simply headphone amps.

I've suggested one or other of the Behringer h/p amps to various folks but always with the proviso that there should be some kind of reliable EQ and limiting in line before the amp and that the user or someone else should know how to set it properly.

Whatever money you think you are saving will pale into nothing compared to the amount of money you would be prepared to pay to get your hearing back, and you can't.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:28 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Do you use backing tracks? If not, and as the Streetcube is your only PA (so you won't be playing particularly loud or to big audiences), what benefit do you feel you'll get from using IEMs?

We do use backing tracks along with vocals and guitars, and when we play outdoors to crowds with our Street Cube turned right up, we struggle to hear ourselves.

Our other hope was that we’d be able to take the iem systems with us when we play at festivals. In the past we’ve struggled with the sound setup from the foldback wedges the sound crews provide - 99% of the time, we can’t hear properly and our performance suffers.

We have soft tone voices, so maybe that’s why we have so much trouble.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:36 pm

Wonks wrote:Can I just suggest something like this as an alternative to the two Behringer units https://www.scan.co.uk/products/m-audio ... evel-boost as it can feed two sets of wired headphones/IEMs and only needs a single input? You may need to use some extension leads for your IEMs (though you may have needed some form of long leads with the Behringer units anyway).

Then use a cable like this to feed the unit. This provide a stereo feed to the IEMs for any backing tracks you use, plus a mono vocals and instruments . https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-STEREO-6 ... 9677&psc=1

I’ll have a look at that option, although it’s probably not quite what we’re after. I think having the individual Behringer packs might be a better option for us so we can easily adjust our own volumes on the belt packs.
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Emma Music » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:48 pm

Dan LB wrote:
forumuser908065 wrote:For example, your P2 takes a mono XLR but drives both your left and right ears. So mono through both ears. I'm not aware of any similar product that does real stereo.

The P2 can indeed take a mono balanced XLR or TRS feed and drive both ears with a mono signal......

BUT it can also take an unbalanced stereo feed on XLR or TRS and drive the IEMs with true stereo.

So exactly what kind of cables would I need to plug 2 Behringer P2 systems into my Roland amp to hear both systems in true stereo? Could you link to them, I get a bit confused with the names! (It’s confusing how there’s ‘TRS’ and ‘TS’, ‘balanced’ and ‘unbalanced’ and such.)
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Re: Wired in ear monitor setup question

Postby Dave Rowles » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:12 am

If you want true stereo off the backing tracks this is how I would do it at low cost. I'm going to be explicit, so apologies if this goes too simple and I explain things that are obvious to you!

Output: from the cube street's "line out" on the back. Make sure the switch is correct on the back (or at least there's one on the pictures I've looked at). The L and R out will need some form of cable that will go from the jack outs to your splitter.

Splitter: I think it's simplest to get a multi-out headphone amp. Something like the Behringer HA400 will work. You'll need a dual phono to 3.5mm cable, that we'd usually use to plug a laptop or phone into a mixer. Get some phono to jack adapters, and a 3.5mm - 1/4" jack adapter for the other end. If you're handy with a soldering iron, you could always upgrade the ends for a permanent solution, which will withstand re-plugging more. From there all you need is a balanced TRS (or in this case stereo) 1/4" jack to jack or jack to XLR to run to the P2.

Cable split - no headphone amp: Now as you're using a cube street, I imagine that it's possible that you run it off the batteries, and don't have access to mains power all the time. In which case, the cable split could be a better route. It might be possible to find this with off the shelf cables, but you might have to go looking for someone to make them for you, or getting the soldering iron out yourself. You'll need to go:

Dual 1/4" jack (amp) > to > female XLR > to > P2.

At some point you'll need to y-split. This can be done at either of the first 2 points. Y-Split (just incase you don't know) is simply taking 2 cables from the same socket. If it were me I'd add in another point and y-split with a separate cable after the "1/4" jack socket, or female XLR" point. While it's one more cable to remember, it makes the system more flexible.

You could y-split off the dual 1/4" jack plugs that go into the amp, which would cut down the cabling. I prefer using XLR for the connection up to the P2, purely because it's a slightly more secure connection, and thus you are less likely to stamp on the cable and detach it from the P2. So in this case it would be:

Dual 1/4" jack (amp) Y-Split > to > female XLR > to > XLR M-F > to > P2.

It's late so I've probably rambled a bit. Aside from the Y-Split, I use a similar system for wired monitoring when I drum. I use a small mixer to take the input with a TRS jack to XLR from the headphone out to a fischer amps belt pack that does stereo off the XLR socket. It's a really good solution to the problem!

EDIT
TRS is simply Tip Ring Sleeve. These are sometimes referred to as stereo jacks, but we techs like to call them balanced, but that really depends on what signal you are sending down them. In this case you'd be sending stereo down, and not a balanced mono signal.

TS is Tip Sleeve. Referred by most as mono jack, but we techs like to call it unbalanced.

XLR microphone type connection.

In reality you really don't need to know why, although there is a reason for all these names!

:)
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