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'Masks' for wind instruments?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby AlecSp » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Regardless of the science and common sense questions, I still believe it will be other more mundane areas that may override and keep venues dark for longer - like insurance.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:21 pm

Fascinating (or terrifying!) links in the post. Thanks Jorge.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby ef37a » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Thank you Jorge, I can see I did not fully understand the situation.

To explain my "muso-muso" point? I was thinking of touring bands that live out of a Transit or maybe students that have been shacked up in a rental for months anyway.

I understand the Proms are going ahead sans audience. Sans blowers as well?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby MarkPAman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:17 pm

My understanding is that without an audience attending, the proms will have a huge amount of space in which blowers & singers can be well separated, though they may also reduce numbers if needed.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:28 pm

They'll have to come up with a whole new mic rigging plan... :lol:
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:06 pm

Thank you Jorge for the informative post. It is well taken.

So then if a horn player uses a mask w/ hole for the mouthpiece stem, and has a cover over the bell, and the condensate is collected, perhaps that is an improvement?


This whole situation is really hard on singers and winds.

I may have to just focus on piano trio?!? We can sit 10 feet apart, and all wear masks and the music is not compromised.

The dixieland band needs the winds though!?


I still don't know about clarinet?
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby shufflebeat » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:28 pm

Jorge wrote:I apologize for the following long post,..

Thanks for taking the time.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby wireman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:19 pm

Malcolm Smith wrote:A brass playing friend of mine showed me this informative video:

Sound waves in Brass instruments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyoGz5PSuSw

Spread that! :clap:

But he still also stretched a (huge!) "mask" across the bell of his sousaphone as a joke and to allay uneducated people's fears now that he's out performing in street bands again.

I was hoping he was going to breath in some coloured smoke before playing.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:46 am

wireman wrote:
Malcolm Smith wrote:A brass playing friend of mine showed me this informative video:

Sound waves in Brass instruments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyoGz5PSuSw

Spread that! :clap:

But he still also stretched a (huge!) "mask" across the bell of his sousaphone as a joke and to allay uneducated people's fears now that he's out performing in street bands again.

I was hoping he was going to breath in some coloured smoke before playing.

This is no time for recreational chemistry.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Malcolm Smith » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:35 am

Jorge wrote:
Malcolm Smith wrote:A brass playing friend of mine showed me this informative video:
Sound waves in Brass instruments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyoGz5PSuSw

Spread that! :clap:

I apologize for the following long post, but I see this discussion leading to a false sense of security and possible harm to folks on this forum and others.

This video is highly misleading. It creates a "straw man" false concept that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is transmitted at speed of sound from the trumpet bell (or singer's mouth) to the listener's breathing zone.

I'm not quite sure how anyone would come up with such a curious misreading of the video. Did anyone else think it meant that?

I watched it a third time looking for what you mentioned, but it never suggests anything of the sort. It even ends with the statement "Sound waves do not transmit viruses". The video was merely demonstrating that when you blow into brass instruments, there is not a huge blast of air coming out of the bell, to dispel the myth that a politician standing next to a tuba won't get his wig blown off. The massive size of the bell doesn't change the fact that one person's lungs still only produce the same amount of air, and it is not even being channelled out in some huge gust.

Jorge wrote:But that is not, and never has been, the problem with risk of virus transmission by vocal or brass instrument performance in public. The problem is the potential for short distance spread of the virus by what is called the airborne route.

The ball-blowing demonstration shows how a brass player is not actually blowing out loads of air, but actually creates much less airborne risk than a singer/orator or someone blowing through a straw or speaking in a pub/shop or doing strenuous exercise in a gym.

Edit: Here is Richard's letter to parliament, which mentions Declan Costello's study that Ben Howes linked to in post 5:

https://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/Home/ ... nstruments

It is good that someone is correcting our politicians' misunderstandings.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby shufflebeat » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:50 am

Is this part of the answer?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WZvDvuxjHvU

Try not to listen to the background music.


Air can be redirected through a replaceable filter. Doesn't really help the fluters, though, and doesn't address the breathing in part unless it encourages people to develop the uillean pipers' technique of breathing in through the backside and out through the elbow.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Malcolm Smith » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:16 pm

wireman wrote:
Malcolm Smith wrote:A brass playing friend of mine showed me this informative video:

Sound waves in Brass instruments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyoGz5PSuSw

Spread that! :clap:

I was hoping he was going to breath in some coloured smoke before playing.
Thank you for accepting the challenge, in the name of science and for humanity! :)

shufflebeat wrote:This is no time for recreational chemistry.
Gentlemen, please do not disturb me - I will be in my study...
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:36 pm

Malcolm Smith wrote:I'm not quite sure how anyone would come up with such a curious misreading of the video. Did anyone else think it meant that?

I did feel that his discussions about the speed of sound were irrelevant, confused and misleading...

The video was merely demonstrating that when you blow into brass instruments, there is not a huge blast of air coming out of the bell....

Yes, a little more editing would have emphasized that point even better...

Loving the Isolator... where can I buy one of those? :lol:
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby N i g e l » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:54 pm

Im not convinced by that ball moving demonstration. I think the difference in force & ball movement is due to the shape of the air current source. The straw concentrates the flow and gives a high force onto the ball, the bell of the trumpet/trombone spreads out the air flow over a wider area giving less pressure on the ball.

Is it similar to a garden hose with a jet attachment for blasting dirt versus a sprinkler attachment for gently distributing the water; same amount of water but different flow concentration.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Malcolm Smith » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:39 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Loving the Isolator... where can I buy one of those? :lol:
To purchase one you'll need a Time Machine to go back in time 95 years. The image might be obscuring my original link, but here is a better one.
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