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'Masks' for wind instruments?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby DC-Choppah » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:28 pm

N i g e l wrote:Im not convinced by that ball moving demonstration. I think the difference in force & ball movement is due to the shape of the air current source. The straw concentrates the flow and gives a high force onto the ball, the bell of the trumpet/trombone spreads out the air flow over a wider area giving less pressure on the ball.

Is it similar to a garden hose with a jet attachment for blasting dirt versus a sprinkler attachment for gently distributing the water; same amount of water but different flow concentration.

Indeed, in the video at 1:58, he plays the mouthpiece alone. The air comes out of the stem of the mouthpiece and moves the ball. So clearly there is air going into the horn that also comes out of the bell (and thus has virus in it too). It has been diffused by the horn though so very little hits the ball.

So you need a cover over the bell of the horn to act as a mask, but also around the mouthpiece as well.

My concern is muso to muso. We are outside and the audience would be far away. How much virus builds up on the bandstand for all the band to inhale?!
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:56 am

This seems OT, is not...

I watched a gal cleaning the belt at Sain's checkout the other day and, being an inventive sort of chap I thought "why not put a potent UV lamp inside the machine?"

Similarly we could surely devise a 'Cooker Hood' for stages that drew the infectious droplets away. The extraction pipe could also have UV lamps in it or it would probably be safe to just vent at rooftop height?

Ooo! Mr Dyson's Air Blade technology?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby AlecSp » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:55 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:Indeed, in the video at 1:58, he plays the mouthpiece alone. The air comes out of the stem of the mouthpiece and moves the ball. So clearly there is air going into the horn that also comes out of the bell (and thus has virus in it too). It has been diffused by the horn though so very little hits the ball
The argument that the air flow is incredibly low is a persuasive one.

The less visible factor, which was never mentioned, is how effectively the mouth vibrations turn spit into an aerosol. I don't know how much has been investigated here, but it's a less obvious, but entirely plausible, risk factor.

the experiements in the video hardly constitute quality science. Good diagnostics for this will be with scrupulous air measurements after singing/playing. Which happens to be what the experts are doing. I'd trust their findings much more than this video...
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:56 pm

I think the other thing to bear in mind is that you are adding a lot of energy into the air. You're going to increase any brownian motion which means, if there are any aerosolised particles going around, they're going to spread more quickly.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby shufflebeat » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 pm

ef37a wrote:Similarly we could surely devise a 'Cooker Hood' for stages that drew the infectious droplets away.

We'd have to be careful with that one, some of the guys I play with are quite small and light, and with quite a lot of hair.

I'm thinking shuttlecock technology.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:05 pm

blinddrew wrote:I think the other thing to bear in mind is that you are adding a lot of energy into the air. You're going to increase any brownian motion which means, if there are any aerosolised particles going around, they're going to spread more quickly.

Once 'launched' surely particles come under the law (of no doubt fiendish mathmatics) of gas diffusion? Some complex function of the particle mass and mean free path speed of air, 340 m/s?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:07 pm

Ah, I thought it was a function of temperature/energy. I stand corrected.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:29 pm

blinddrew wrote:Ah, I thought it was a function of temperature/energy. I stand corrected.

Oh! I am sure they will be part of the 'equation' Drew. Do we not have a physics teacher on the strength?

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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby N i g e l » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:53 pm

This all assumes playing in a large neutral ambient space.
Real venues tend to have air currents due to the audience bodyheat/lights/jigging about and air flow due to cooling, a/c, or when they open the exits before the encore and the cool air flows in.

With gob based wind instruments, the fluid will accumulate at the end of the instrument, soak through any end cover and and bepropelled into the general airflow.

Electric pumped bag pipes & chanter, your time has come ????
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:59 am

I had a dream...

...uillean pipes, as far as the eye can see.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:04 am

It's the future! :)
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby wireman » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:31 pm

Wind instrumentalists just need to learn how to play by sucking.
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:13 pm

I can see the headline in the "Stun".... "Horn players suck!" :D :D
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:54 am

I think you're on to something there...

Is it possible to do circular sucking do you think? :bouncy:
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Re: 'Masks' for wind instruments?

Postby ef37a » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:36 pm

b,b,b,b,BUT! You can't keep sucking forever!
(well, maybe Trump can)

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