You are here

Detailed sound speaker.

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Yosef Mandel » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 am

Hi,i use a studio monitor headphones Sony mdr 7506,i like the detailed sound,that i can pin point exactly what i'm hearing.I'm looking for speakers that is this level clear,i have 2 speakers from Roland KC 60,not studio monitor speakers, but good ,each costs over $300,but doesn't have the detailed sound of the Sony headphones,is this because headphones will always be more clear,or i can find even speakers as good,if yes, please tell me which speaker. I also want loudspeakers that are so good,meaning besides speakers for my small room,i want the same quality speakers that are louder, for events.(i might need a few in order to be enough loud.)Which speakers might be good for me? In short, i'm looking for real detailed sound speakers and loudspeakers, if there is such a thing. This might include a sub also.

Thanks so much.
Yosef Mandel
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 am

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Dave Rowles » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:43 am

What's your budget? And what are you actually wanting to use them for?

We can suggest a PA that costs anywhere between $300 to £$10,000 and beyond, so knowing how much you actually want to spend will help us give you better information. Obviously the more you spend the better the speaker, but there are other factors as well.
User avatar
Dave Rowles
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Isle of Man
http://www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Yosef Mandel » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:25 am

Thanks so much for the fast reply. I dont have really a budget,meaning if i wait a little to buy, i will have more money so i can spend more,also the budget depends on the quality. I probably wont give more then $2000 for my home speakers,but it all depends how much better it sounds ,i'm not this big profesional that realizes everything,at least it should sound as detailed as my headphones,and if i see something even better in "any" aspect i may buy it,i have to check it out. Just give me a list (if you have),and i'll check it out.BTW which speaker for $300 sounds "really" as good as my headphones? I need speakers for playing on keyboards,one keyboard is a arranger,+ i use togethor a MIDI controller keyboard,connected to all different plugins,i play literally all different styles,sometimes with a lot of tracks,so i want to be able to hear all tracks clear at once. I understand that the loud speakers(used for big rooms/hall) may be very expensive,but maybe i'll go for it.
Thanks for helping me.
Yosef Mandel
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 am

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:39 pm

As Dave says this is a 'how long is a piece of string' question. But, good studio monitors that can sound as detailed as your headphones start at around £800 (about $900) Neumann KH80 or KH120 (£1000/$1200) for a pair and decent PA speakers for small to medium venues a little more (Yamaha DXR range for example)
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13896
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Yosef Mandel » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Do you think the DXR SERIES is really as detailed,for so cheap!? i never try'd it,but i could go to a store to try.
Yosef Mandel
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 am

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:12 pm

I wouldn't use DXRs as studio monitors but for live they are pretty good, reasonably natural sounding and loud, they ain't Nexo or L'Acoustic but good for the money. If you'd tell us you budget and usage we could give better advice.

FWIW a £300 speaker is not going to sound as detailed as £300 headphones but £1000 monitor speakers would get a good bit of the way there.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13896
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Dave Rowles » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:19 pm

I’m getting confused here a bit.

Are you wanting studio speakers for your home?

Or are you wanting PA speakers for gigs?

Because, as Sam says, the criteria is rather drastically different for what we’ll recommend.
User avatar
Dave Rowles
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Isle of Man
http://www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby ef37a » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:13 am

Budget aside there is also the question of what is meant by "detailed"?

Headphones by their very nature give a very intimate sound and those Sonys are closed back and thus shut out much of the reflective 'mess' of the average room and of course, ambient noise.

Those cans are also nothing special? (unless I am missing the headphone bargain of the decade?) Retail around $100 they are I would think in the"good but not startling" end of the market? To give even the best monitors a good try against headphones you need a well treated room and a very low ambient noise level < 30dBC would be my guess?

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12262
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby James Perrett » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:59 pm

The Sony 7506 has a reputation for an 'enhanced' top end so you're going to need a speaker with a similar characteristic if you want to match the sound.
User avatar
James Perrett
Moderator
Posts: 9911
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:00 am
Location: The wilds of Hampshire
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration. JRP Music Facebook Page

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Yosef Mandel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:42 pm

ef37a wrote:Budget aside there is also the question of what is meant by "detailed"? I mean that every sound is sharp/clear for itself,so you know exactly what i'm hearing,even though there are 10 different instruments playing at once,i can tell very easy what every instrument is playing,but on the Roland KC60,i have to work hard to know exactly whats playing,it sounds like one big salad.

Headphones by their very nature give a very intimate sound and those Sonys are closed back and thus shut out much of the reflective 'mess' of the average room and of course, ambient noise.

Those cans are also nothing special? (unless I am missing the headphone bargain of the decade?) Retail around $100 they are I would think in the"good but not startling" end of the market? To give even the best monitors a good try against headphones you need a well treated room and a very low ambient noise level < 30dBC would be my guess? So even with the best speakers,it wont be so detailed,with out a well treated room? If so,its impossible to to have amazing detailed sound when playing at public events,like big halls,or rooms,is this true?

Dave.
Yosef Mandel
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 am

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Yosef Mandel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:53 pm

what is meant by "detailed"? I mean that every sound is sharp/clear for itself,so you know exactly what i'm hearing,even though there are 10 different instruments playing at once,i can tell very easy what every instrument is playing,but on the Roland KC60,i have to work hard to know exactly whats playing,it sounds like one big salad. From what Dave says i understand that even with the best speakers,it wont be so detailed,with out a well treated room? If so,its impossible to to have amazing detailed sound when playing at public events,like big halls,or rooms,is this true? I need both,studio monitors,for my home,and a PA sytem for public events,that are as detailed like my Sony headphones at least,is there such a thing?
Yosef Mandel
New here
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 am

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby zenguitar » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:19 pm

ef37a wrote:Budget aside there is also the question of what is meant by "detailed"?
I mean that every sound is sharp/clear for itself,so you know exactly what i'm hearing,even though there are 10 different instruments playing at once,i can tell very easy what every instrument is playing,but on the Roland KC60,i have to work hard to know exactly whats playing,it sounds like one big salad.

ef37a wrote:Headphones by their very nature give a very intimate sound and those Sonys are closed back and thus shut out much of the reflective 'mess' of the average room and of course, ambient noise.

Those cans are also nothing special? (unless I am missing the headphone bargain of the decade?) Retail around $100 they are I would think in the"good but not startling" end of the market? To give even the best monitors a good try against headphones you need a well treated room and a very low ambient noise level < 30dBC would be my guess?
So even with the best speakers,it wont be so detailed,with out a well treated room? If so,its impossible to to have amazing detailed sound when playing at public events,like big halls,or rooms,is this true?

edited to add quotes and end quotes in the correct places so it reads clearly - Andy :beamup:
User avatar
zenguitar
Moderator
Posts: 10786
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Devon
liberté, frivolité et vanité

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:11 pm

PA systems are never going to be as detailed and accurate as good studio monitors even before you take the room into account. They serve different purposes and have different requirements.

Studio monitors have to sound detailed and accurate in a very small 'sweet spot' often little wider than the engineers head, PA speakers need to provide decent sound over the whole width and depth of the room and often at much higher SPL than a studio monitor.

However, the KC60 is nowhere near as good as even a mid range modern PA speaker like the Yamaha DXR or better still DSR or even DZR* (probably not much more detailed than the DSR but a fair bit louder).

If you have an untreated room at home I'd spend a bout ⅔rds of your budget on a pair of Neumann KH120s (go and listen first though)** and the rest on some proper acoustic treatment https://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-242-acoustic-panel/

Then, depending on the budget for PA speakers (what is your budget?), go and listen to Yamaha DSR12s and, say, RCF 722.

* Other brands are available

** Given that your headphones are mid range HiFi cans matching them with monitor speakers should be possible. If you get the chance to listen to some decent cans like AKG K702s or Sennheiser take it, you might want to save some budget for them...
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13896
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby RichardT » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:44 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:PA systems are never going to be as detailed and accurate as good studio monitors even before you take the room into account. They serve different purposes and have different requirements.

Studio monitors have to sound detailed and accurate in a very small 'sweet spot' often little wider than the engineers head, PA speakers need to provide decent sound over the whole width and depth of the room and often at much higher SPL than a studio monitor.

However, the KC60 is nowhere near as good as even a mid range modern PA speaker like the Yamaha DXR or better still DSR or even DZR* (probably not much more detailed than the DSR but a fair bit louder).

If you have an untreated room at home I'd spend a bout ⅔rds of your budget on a pair of Neumann KH120s (go and listen first though)** and the rest on some proper acoustic treatment https://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-242-acoustic-panel/

Then, depending on the budget for PA speakers (what is your budget?), go and listen to Yamaha DSR12s and, say, RCF 722.

* Other brands are available

** Given that your headphones are mid range HiFi cans matching them with monitor speakers should be possible. If you get the chance to listen to some decent cans like AKG K702s or Sennheiser take it, you might want to save some budget for them...

This all makes good sense. I used to have a KC80 and I’m not surprised you’re having clarity problems using KC60s as studio monitors. I have a pair of Neumann KH120s and they are very good. If, though you have more to spend, you can get better monitors - it all depends on whether you want to wait until you have more money. KEF LS50w ii’s at around €2,200 are pretty special.
RichardT
Regular
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: Detailed sound speaker.

Postby Dave Rowles » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 am

Sam Spoons wrote:PA systems are never going to be as detailed and accurate as good studio monitors even before you take the room into account. They serve different purposes and have different requirements.

Have to disagree. I had an awesome system tech and system on a big show last year. We were running a Yamaha Rivage PM10, onto a L-Acoustics Kara II system. The system tech had done a great job in time aligning, EQ, speaker placement, and level, and the sound was detailed and accurate. Made mixing a dream, and I only needed to hit the graphic a couple of times to deal with the lead instrument which was an acoustic violin at rock concert levels.

However, the main point here is that it was correctly set up, and it was a high value gig (estimate at least £500k on speaker system, let alone the desk and mic locker!). On the budget available outside of PA hire companies, you struggle. That said, depending on budget and room and set up you can achieve great sound.
User avatar
Dave Rowles
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1146
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Isle of Man
http://www.manninmusic.com Bandcamp
Sound Engineer, Music Teacher, Isle of Man

Next