You are here

Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

For performing musicians and engineers: stagecraft, engineering and gear.

Moderator: Moderators

Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby BushAl » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:09 am

Hi all, we are a country hall that puts on live music, mainly folk to blues. We have 2 x K12.2 for use inside the Hall (18m x 9 timber building) which has worked well, but could sometimes use more bass.

We now have a grant to buy Subs and Tops for Outside concerts (in a 25m x 17m grassed area for 150 - 200 people).

We think we will stick with QSC (6 year warranty is good as we are remote) and buy 2 x Ks118s, but we haven't had much experience matching Subs with Tops.
So we need advice on suitable tops. We could use the K12.2s or buy KW122 or KW153s.

The grant would cover either so the decision is mainly on sound vs weight, and equipment that would also be useful inside.
We heard the 153s with another sub and that definitely had enough power.
The smaller speakers presumably wont go as loud but might get cleaner sound.
Any advice gratefully received
Thanks
Al
BushAl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:09 am

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:39 am

I would usually choose 10" or 12" two way tops in preference to 15" for vocal based music but the 153's are three way so shouldn't have the crossover issues 15" two ways can exhibit.

TBH, for a small audience even the K12,2's would probably get the job done (I have a pair of original K12s and an old EV 15" sub which I've used outdoors to up to 400 audience with reasonable success) but the 153s go a fair bit louder.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14556
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby Wonks » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:08 pm

Have you put on outside music before? If so, what was the reacation from the locals to the noise? I've done a few outside gigs, and those in the afternoon were OK, but on a summer's evening, the pub we were playing at got a lot of complaints and we had to stop after the first set. Strangely it wasn't the nearest houses that complained, but the ones a mile or so away. It certainly wasn't a rural setting, but the pub backed on to an open flat heath, so there was very little to stop the sound travelling across it.

I don't know how loud you planned for these events to be, or how often, but it only takes a few complaints to the council and you've got a redundant PA system on your hands.

I'd be very tempted to look at a line array system rather then the more normal sub+top box, as the sound is far more controllable and doesn't spread out upwards and to the sides in the same way, meaning that the overall volume can be kept lower as well.

I'd also be looking at cardioid subs, to better control the bass dispersion, which you can do with the KS118, but you need two working together to do so. Maybe a KS212C, which is only slightly down on the bass extension of the KS118 (44Hz vs 41Hz at -6dB)?
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11086
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby BushAl » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:58 am

Sam Spoons wrote:I would usually choose 10" or 12" two way tops in preference to 15" for vocal based music but the 153's are three way so shouldn't have the crossover issues 15" two ways can exhibit.

TBH, for a small audience even the K12,2's would probably get the job done (I have a pair of original K12s and an old EV 15" sub which I've used outdoors to up to 400 audience with reasonable success) but the 153s go a fair bit louder.

Thanks for that - I was starting to worry about the weight of the 153s - so good to hear you were OK with 2 K12's and a sub.
BushAl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:09 am

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby BushAl » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:08 am

Wonks wrote:Have you put on outside music before?

Thanks for your comments - Yes we have put on several outside gigs this year (Covid) and folk seem to like them, so looking to do more. We are very rural, so most in direct range are often at the gig.

re the cardioid subs - I had noted we can run a pair of KS118 that way, and thought it was worth having the extra spls (136 vs 132 on the 212). From reading around lots of folk are running 4 subs with two tops.
BushAl
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:09 am

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:04 pm

My old boss at the PA company loved bass, I always thought he ran the subs way too loud. I can't imagine a situation where you'd need 4 subs to match 2 tops (not even the 153s) for folk and blues music (Heavy Metal or EDM maybe).

The SPL figure is a means of comparison between different speakers and no more than that, comparing the max SPL of a sub and a top doesn't really tell you much as the frequency ranges are different (and the top will have a chunk of its FR chopped off by the crossover anyway).

My gigs to 2-400 people were 'family friendly' small festivals and we weren't particularly loud.

Image
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14556
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby Mike Monte » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:56 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:
My gigs to 2-400 people were 'family friendly' small festivals and we weren't particularly loud.

Image

A totally-cool setting for a gig - "on the beach".
A pain in the a** if you have to schlepp gear over the sand......as wheels are useless...
...been there / done that.

Did you use a generator?
User avatar
Mike Monte
Regular
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:00 am

Re: Advice please on QSC tops for KS118

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:09 pm

:) Note the 4x4 and trailer on the right...

Yes, a 2kW Kippor inverter genny ran everything inc a couple of LED PAR cans. There is a thread here about speccing the generator if you're interested https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=36681&start=15
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14556
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........