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Where do the bass notes come from?

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Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby awjoe » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:29 am

I see a fiddler, a concertinist, and an acoustic strummer. Where do the low (kick?) notes come from? I'm watching all their legs, but I can't match kick sound to a performer. Added after the fact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqO8rWeZbU

Here's another one, in which they add a sound to a studio mix at 3.02 - it seems to be a low, distorted string on the fiddle at first, but then the video disproves that (but not completely). Sure, it's studio, not live, but it proves that they add sounds to their videos after the fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44J0dCgo1w

Anyway, if I'm right, they're adding stuff to give their overall sound w-e-i-g-h-t. Smart. Their sound benefits from that. But did they actually do it live?
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby CS70 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:54 am

Yes, that initial kick is likely added in post and there would some proper mixing in post as well to get that sound.

And as there's absolute no crowd sound, I'm not even sure it's the actual live performance.. but as it syncs very well with the music, if I had to bet I'd go for accurately cleaned-up spot microphones.

The lens used to film is probably a long tele so there's no telling where the audience is with respect to the stage - if far enough, the stage mics would not pic much of it.

A very good job indeed.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Luke W » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:55 am

My guess would be a the concertina player using a stomp box. It certainly all sounds live to me, and also seems like it'd be a strange choice to just add some kick afterwards. But weirder things have happened and I could be wrong.

Not quite sure what you mean by adding a sound to a studio mix for the second one? I don't know the track so maybe that's why, is there something there that's not in the normal release? It just looks like a video where they've played along to a recorded album track to me, the parts at the time you mention sound like they've stacked up some of the string/box parts for some extra impact, as you've said.

It's not uncommon to add parts and layer things up on recordings, I'd imagine those same bits live are usually given that impact by just playing with a bit more "umph".

Great band though, some serious playing going on there.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby CS70 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:40 am

Luke W wrote:My guess would be a the concertina player using a stomp box.

I'd thought about that as well as the player's leg is moving well in sync with it, but the kicks exists only for the first portion of the first song, until a break, and when the song restarts he's moving identically and no kick..
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Luke W » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:54 am

I'd noticed the same thing, but my theory is that he's not lifting his whole foot up all of the time. When I'm playing I quite often keep my toe down and tap the heel of my foot to help with timing, and the result looks very much like whats going on here. It'd also explain the parts where his leg is moving double time to the kick.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby CS70 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 am

Surely possible, obviously we don't know - but to explain why I just think it's much more likely that they added the kick in post. First, you do that to the first song for impact. One of YouTube tricks is to have something start with a bang to keep the listener attention past the first three seconds.

Then, the kick seems to never reappear, and why wouldn't you use a stomp box when you have one right there under your foot? At least some of the time? There's also no musical reason not to play it after the break - if anything the opposite, when you restart you usually want to kick in with a strong rhythmic base to get everything flowing back together.

Also, that kind of editing and alignment is painstaking and time consuming, and since this is not a kinda of "produced" video, the pressure and urge to release may have had a role - I've seen that more often than not! Witness the gazillion people who publish the "it's unfinished but" videos.

The kick also sounds more like a sample to me, soundwise. And, finally, this kind of postprocessing is absolutely common practice for anyone who's not a 16yo boy or girl with an iphone.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:45 am

CS70 wrote:The kick also sounds more like a sample to me, soundwise.

Could be triggered live by way of a stomp box, of course.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Luke W » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5zuW24jC_s

That may shed some light on the situation.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:26 pm

Yep, it's the fiddler controlling the kick loop. You can see her switch it off between 2:50 and 3:00.
Good find Luke. :thumbup:
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Luke W » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

I'd reached a different conclusion! I'm just seeing the guitarist with a stomp box. Just quite enjoying watching some more of their stuff as well to be honest, I'm wondering if I've seen them at some point, the more I hear the more familiar they sound.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:37 pm

Yep, you're right! I didn't even see it because of the pattern of the carpet! But she definitely switches something off or on at the same point - think it might be some kind of sustain effect to keep those long notes lush.
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Luke W » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:43 pm

She does indeed, I started doubting myself when you pointed that time out. It's also making me feel a bit less silly about my acoustic pedalboard consisting of more than just a DI and a box for picks... :lol:
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:46 pm

Mohsen controls most of it and does use a stomp box, Haley uses an octave pedal (edit :- she mentions that the other guys also have octave pedals).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx_C6JCXdDw

Talisk Tech Rider :-

https://d7cbc80d-3b0a-4183-bffc-f793f66866be.filesusr.com/ugd/0c819f_6dac4750348448d28580615678944674.pdf
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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:26 pm

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Re: Where do the bass notes come from?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:19 pm

I did wonder if she was using an octave pedal - there's a bit later in that NYC gig when you can hear it kick in a bit cleaner.
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