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Which is the better Mixing board?

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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby shufflebeat » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:59 pm

Ah, thanks Drew. Nice to feel relevant. I do think a multidimensional approach is valuable.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby AlecSp » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:42 pm

mikehende wrote:I only play mp3's through by DJ/Radio Automated software, not do any live mixing so don't really need a live mixing option. I think my main concern will be running by two Effects machines [Pioneer Reverb and Lexicon Multi Fx].

I am not noticing any specific "send and return" options in both item's description so that is my main concern, any ideas please?
I'll bite!

Both the RCF and MixWix mixers you mention allow for effects send and return. You'd typically use a separate post fade aux send to send to each effect unit. The return path from each effect unit would be to a stereo (or mono, if you prefer) channel.

This is much more flexible than your Xone:23 mixer, which appears to have a single effects loop which is either on or off.

I'm a bit mystified by your need for two reverb units for DJ use, but if you must, you could also consider saving one by using the internal FX unit on many mixers (including the RCF, but not the MixWiz). Less stuff to carry, and fewer cables to connect.

Is this for live DJ use, or are you streaming? Either way, the weakest point in your setup will be your speakers and the mp3 files audio quality. If you've got 320kbs mp3 files, they'll be OK, but will still never be let down by any analog mixer.

The point made about cables is well made. I've seen too many DJs (and musicians) with abused crappy cables that let them down every time. Quite pitiful, really. If that's you, then the best money you can spend would be on cables, and looking after them. If not, then be happy to be the rare DJ in that camp.

And is your Xone mixer really letting you down, or is it stuff around it, like cables or other kit? If so, then (obviously) fix them, keep your mixer, and save some money. If it's that you want the effects connectivity, then do buy a new mixer. But are you sure your effects units are really adding to the mix? Or are they just giving you more complexity to worry about?

But, back to the mixer, why spend more than you need? I'd go for the cheapest A&H Zed mixer with the IO count you need.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby mikehende » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:17 pm

Thanks for all the info. To clarify.

No, my mixer is not letting me down, just there were 2 times recently when it was not showing any input from my pc. This mixer costs between $200-300 to repair but costs $350 new which is why it does not make sense to repair. If I had to go with another DJ Mixer I would go with a Rane in any case.

Here's the situation with the fx which is mainly why I was considering a mixing board and considering since I don't do live mixing or beat matching anymore and only have my automated DJ/Radio software play back the music then no specific need for a DJ mixer.

I have an old Pioneer SR303 Spring Reverb which I use mainly when playing 70s music. the Lexicon M200 I use for more modern music for Delay fx mainly so that is why I need these 2 units. No built-in effects on any mixing board or music software sounds like my standalone fx units in my opinion.

Instead of running the Master Out from the Mixer into the Pioneer then running that through the Lexicon then to the EQ, I was told that it would be better if running those 2 fx into a mixing board instead. So when you add to that everyone I have asked saying that a Mixing board will sound better and give better performance than my DJ mixer, all of this what sent me looking into this.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby uselessoldman » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:55 pm

no specific need for - I keep telling myself that all the time and guess what, I never listen to myself !! My head keeps telling me repeatedly you can never have enough toys to play with and since it controls my fingers that have access to the computer and internet, I gave up arguing with myself. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :round1:
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby Dave Rowles » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:17 pm

mikehende wrote:No built-in effects on any mixing board or music software sounds like my standalone fx units in my opinion.

At the price you're looking at then I'd agree. The outboard you've got is better than onboard stuff. However, if you spend a bit more on the board, you'd find built in stuff that is more than up to the task.

In addition, I'm surprised you've not found music software that matches your standalone FX. When mixing large shows I often use my MacBookPro as a reverb unit as it can sometimes provide far superior FX to the ones available, and it allows me to have the same sounds on every show regardless of the board they give me. Plus I don't have to scroll through loads of presets or settings to get the sounds I want. I've already got them and know where they are.

That said, if I mange to get a proper high end mixer, then I tend to use the ones on the board.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby mikehende » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:32 pm

Thanks Dave. I had tried VST's in the past but still to me they never sounded as good as the outboard's I have.

I had briefly toyed with some Serato and other DJ softwares fx's but same deal.

I am thinking to try this Mixer from RCF:

https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/produ ... 0xr/980918

Which shows the main fx's I use and mainly because it boasts "high quality preamps" but at the $200 price I am not sure if it will be an equal or better quality mixer than the Mixwizard3.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:08 pm

The 'high quality preamps' referred to will be mic preamps, it probably uses them padded for the line inputs but I'd be surprised if the ones in the MixWiz will be inferior anyway.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Yeah, it might sound different, I doubt it will sound better.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby AlecSp » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:23 pm

mikehende wrote:I am thinking to try [the RCF F10XR] mainly because it boasts "high quality preamps" but at the $200 price I am not sure if it will be an equal or better quality mixer than the Mixwizard3.
Show me a cheap mixer that doesn't boast about its high quality preamps... :headbang:
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby mikehende » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:06 pm

I think because it's an RCF brand is what's enticing.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:30 pm

All of these budget mixers are made in China these days, quality differences will be marginal and the fact it's badged RCF doesn't mean anything useful.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby mikehende » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:34 pm

Same deal with computers too so I think that's accurate. One would think a quality brand will want to maintain it's reputation like Allen and Heath does.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:56 pm

One quick way of gauging mixer quality is by looking at the specs. A quick look at the RCF gives an equivalent input noise (EIN) for the mic input of -124dBu which is reasonable until you see the words A-weighted and no resistance mentioned. That tells you that the manufacturer is trying to add a few dB to the spec.

Compare that to the Allen and Heath Mixwiz 3 spec which gives a figure of -128dBu unweighted with a 150 ohm termination over a frequency range of 22Hz - 22kHz. An excellent figure with properly specified test conditions.

The rest of the technical details are equally well qualified in the A&H literature.

It is obvious to me that the Allen and Heath that you already have is in a league above the RCF.
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby Dave Rowles » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:00 pm

I'd be looking at either of these 2 mixers given what you're saying. Both give you aux sends that you can use for your reverb units should you so desire. The Yamaha gives you more inputs and 2 FX engines onboard, but is obviously more expensive.

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Li ... -Mixer/IJJ

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-an ... h-USB/10PT

The MixWizard desks are (in my opinion) better desks. I've seen versions from the 90s still going strong and creating a great sound. But obviously they cost more, and do a load of things you say you don't need at the moment.

Hugh's comment at the start of all of this is still true. Your playback medium is the limiting factor, not the gear. But a better, bigger, more flexible desk will give you more options and allow you to say "Yes I can put that extra thing through my system" when asked, or "Yes a small band is fine, I can accommodate that but it'll cost £xxx more" when asked.

Curveball time. Go Digital.

iPad use look at:
https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Li ... Mixer/29EP

Or if you want faders and control surface:
https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-an ... Mixer/28P3

Both give you access to all the things that the analog mixers will do, but give you the option of recording USB to a laptop, or looping through a laptop should you find those plugin effects that you're looking for.

However, it still sounds like these are way more than your current needs. The question is, do you WANT to do more?
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Re: Which is the better Mixing board?

Postby James Perrett » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:21 pm

Dave Rowles wrote:The MixWizard desks are (in my opinion) better desks. I've seen versions from the 90s still going strong and creating a great sound. But obviously they cost more, and do a load of things you say you don't need at the moment.

Mike already has the Mixwizard (if I'm following things correctly).
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